I really believe there is something in that east side water that doesn't belong there. Well, that's not fair, there were people there from all over Dane County, and all the bad behavior didn't come from Madisonians.
I couldn't do my usual thorough summary on this meeting from Tuesday night cuz, well, they just kept saying the same things over and over and over and over and it amounted to "we don't know, there will be a process" to which the response was the equivalent of "there was no process to pick the station, why should we trust you." I don't know who didn't see that coming, and no matter how many times they said, "there was a process 5 years ago", no one was buying it. That about sums up the meeting, here's a few other nuggets of information or points of interest.
GETTING STARTED
The two presenters from the DOT were John Oimoen, High Speed Passenger Rail Program & Paul Trombino, Division Operations Director. [ooops, and Chris Klein, don't know how I missed that.]
Rummel did a welcome, introduced the mayor and city staff, indicated it was supposed to be a neighborhood meeting, the public process will come later, this is the first meeting. Intent is to let people who live along the rail ask questions.
Mayor says he started working on high speed rail 10 years ago, this is exciting, it will put us on the map, baby boomers will have other options, it will "mix people up", it will help exchange ideas and products and services and new products will be invented. Too early to answer questions about how high the fence is and what color it will be, there will be a public proess preview and opportunity to get questions and comments so as go forward on public participation process, thanks and compliments Rummel for setting it up so early.
There is a letter from the SASY Council and a map of the crossings, but they ran out of them.
PRESENTATION
Here's the powerpoint.
Highlights are
- Eventually you will be able to connect throughout the midwest, including cities like St. Louis, Cincinnati, Kansas City, Detroit, Chicago and Minneapolis/St. Paul - 9 states.
- This will be 110mph speed service
- They will share the corridors with freight
- Prices will be competitive with air cuz you can get downtown
- They are doing a Madison to Minneapolis environmental study, a joint project of WISDOT and Minnesota Dept of Transportation. They are looking at which corridors they will use, they are looking at routes and alternatives, will pair down routes to alternatives, likely 3, there will be a lot of public involvement in the next 12 months
- The $810M in federal money includes stations for Madison, Brookfield, Oconomowoc and Watertown.
- They did a lot of work in 2001 to look at station alternatives, did an environmental assessment, proposed station locations, got their public hearings done, and had 6 alternatives for Madison.
- 3 alteratives were chosen for further analysis for Madison, the airport, Pennsylvania Ave and downtown Monona Terrace, the others were eliminated.
- Applied for funding in October 2009, projects had to be shovel ready.
- The did a feasibility study of the Madison stations, they went back to their previous work, updated it for current conditions, also added Yahara Station at First St and they chose Monona Terrace because it best meets the evaluation criteria. It was a re-validation of the environmental process.
- They still have to complete the preliminary and final engineering report, environmental document for the stations needs to be done, have grant agreement to start work on the station and will begin drafting work for the corridor design.
- There will be a public involvement process for corridor and station – workshops will be soon, starts in June, they will work with the alder and city, there will be public info meetings as well, and a public hearing.
- They want the draft document approved in 2011.
- This summer they will look at specific station it will be at 1 W Wilson or the DOR building.
- The corridor process will look at concerns about noise and vibration issues, corridor management plan, will do outreach to property owners.
- There will be a labor and business advisory committee to work with small and local businesses.
- There will be a stakeholder committee to look at mitigation options, come up with a corridor management plan, landscaping, fencing, signal and crossing devices – there will be public info meetings on a frequent basis.
- 2013 is the goal.
- There will be 6 daily round trips Milwaukee to Madison.
- It will be a 110 mph service by 2016, originally it will only travel at 79 miles per hour.
- It will take 1 hour 13 minutes to get to Milwaukee with stops, 1 hour 4 minutes express.
QUESTIONS/ANSEWERS AND COMMENTS AND OTHER ITEMS REVEALED BY THE DISCUSSION
Q: Is this a done deal? We'll get it whether we want it or not, and it is funded, right?
A: Yes.
Q: Will the stations be built on to an existing building?
A: That will be part of the public process.
C: They need to deterine if it will be the DOR or 1 W Wilson buidling in the next few weeks. Then they will have renderings to see what it will look like and they will get input then. (i.e. there is a process, you're not really included until after we decide)
Q: Why downtown where more crossings and traffic, John Nolan and Blair is bad enough already and to be multimodal downtown doesn't make sense due to all the traffic and the Isthmus?
A: We wanted to be downtown because there will be more ridership. They also based it on work done in 2000, they used that criteria to decide. Oh, and they are going to study it further. They may need to make improvements to intersections, re-time lights, add left turn lanes, etc to deal with traffic.
Q: Will there be improvements at Blair St?
A: They will study it.
Q: If so, who will pay?
A: There is money in the grant to deal with it.
Q: What three sites did you look at?
A1: They don't answer the question.
A2: They added Yahara Station and Kohl Center. (but they have another answer in a bit)
Q: How is the train powered?
A: They can buy 8 locomotives, they are diesel. The have less emissions, quieter engines, but if not ready to go in 2013, they can use Amtrack engines.
Q: What about air pollution?
A: They have to accommodate emissions under Monona Terrace, they need to study that. Ventilation system needs to be developed.
Q: Will the trains spend the night downtown?
A: No, they will be at the maintenance facility, that they still need to locate.
Q: Will there be engines on both ends?
A: Never answered.
Q: Where will passengers load?
A (3): They need to decide that in the next few weeks. 1 W Wilson was original idea, 2nd is DOA building, those were the only two that they looked at, they don’t have to purchase anything. The state investment board building was mentioned but they don’t own it and not a location they looked at.
Q: Will the train engines run all night?
A: That hasn't been determined yet.
Q: What will happen to property values and will they be compensated?
A: You will be compensated if they have to take your property. But mostly, this will be enhancements to the neighborhood.
Q: Will there be street closings?
A: Originally they looked at Brearly and Livingston, they need to look at that again.
Q: Will there be a fence the whole way?
A: They have to look at that.
Q; What will happen to quality of life if neighborhood is split, there will be more crime, drugs and they will need more police presence, will we get it?
A: No answer.
Q: What happens to our community gardens?
A: No answer, they will answer it later. (Answer is, of course, we don't know.)
Q: Have you looked at what will happen to the livibility of the area?
A: They will sit down with people with concerns and try to mitigate them and try to enhance the community, there are no pre-decisions, the process will decide.
Q: Who will buy our houses if we have to sell? Will you?
A: No answer.
C: Speaker says Milwaukee station is not downtown. The crowd argues about how far it is.
Q: What will be the traffic impacts?
A: They have to study that.
Q: Homeowners live downtown now, not when the study was done. Also housing market has changed. Will you redo the study?
A: No.
C: Rummel asked poor Rob Phillips to talk about the process. He did the best he could to say very little about the DOT process. He said when it is all said and done, not everyone will be pleased, but hopefully some of you will be or you will have a better understanding of the issues, that is what the meetings are about and the process going forward.
C: They said the original announcement was for the airport, that was recommended for trains to the Twin cities, after the announcement, there was tremendous public pressure to say the train should go downtown where the people are. That is when they re-evaluated and threw in the Yahara Station and Kohl Center. They decided the extra riders (60K/yr?) were why.
Q: What about Yahara Station?
A: Yahara was closer to downtown, they hadn't done any preliminary work, they would have to start over on the environmental study, the project would not get done by 2013. They got the money because the project was shovel ready. He says the traffic impacts are not much more and infrastructure is not in place at airport or Yahara Station.
Q: Why did you make the decision without public input?
A: They say that is not true, that 5 year old document was what they got the grant based on, it said if train terminated in Madison Monona Terrace is the choice, so its not a great surprise Monona Terrace was picked.
Q: What will the fence look like where the rail splits?
A: They will meet with property owners and help figure that out. Don't know right now.
Q: How do we get involved in the public process?
A: The public involvement team will be in the community with business cards and contacts. Contact them as frequently as you want, there will be workshops in June, they will update the website and work with the alder and city.
C: A train supporter says that the MPO (Metrpolitan Planning Organization) is responsible for picking a train station and they have to release the money. He says they will have a hearing on June 2. He says he doesn't want to see funds released for downtown station until we know what will be there, will it be an intermodal station. City will have to put money in, grant won't cover it all. 60% of people coming to use the train won't come from Maidson, that is why the airport makes sense with all the parking.
C: Lucy Mathiak said that she is worried about transportation costs for the schools if the kids can't safely walk or bike they will need to pay for buses and this splits several elementary school attendance areas in half. And 3 (or 4?) of the 4 schools are fragile and have been threatened to be closed in the last 4 years (Hawthorne, Schenk, Emerson, Marquette/Lapham) They're moving too fast and have not allowed enough time to study impacts on schools, small businesses and others impacted.
NOTE: Before I go on, its important to note that the sound system at Olbrich sucks, and people need to speak right into the microphone to be heard and several times, a very rude and obnoxious guy yelled from the back of the room to talk into the microphone. So much so, that almost every speaker that got up there asked him if they could hear and he would tell them if they were good enough.
NOTE: I should also note, that there were many developers in the room, as well as an attorney/lobbyist and members of DMI and the Chamber. I don't think any of them lived in the district, and certain not in the affected area. As the mom of one of my friends put it "I didn't expect to see so many suits, I expected to see my neighbors." She left very, very frustrated by the meeting with no answers to things she is interested in, and she lives right on the tracks.
Q: Are quiet zones in jeopardy because of the project?
A1: No.
A2: They will need to look at safety and will work with the city and evaluate as we go forward.
C: The person who asked the question asked them to give them straight answers.
Q: Speaker asks Mayor Dave why we won't protect the quiet zones?
A: Mayor Dave Cieslewicz "wait", we said at beginning of meeting we are coming to you early to frame the questions that you have [funny, do the public's questions need "framing"?], we said we don’t have answers and they outlined a process to get your questions, but your preferences are also important, so when talk we talk about siting or fences, those are open questions, they can’t tell you, they can’t tell you what the fence will look like.
Q: Is the fence a done deal?
A: Mayor says likely
Q: Everywhere?
A: Mayor is clearly exasperated and says it won’t come through the city at 110mph, but at 79mph, he's not sure if everywhere, no one knows, this is an iterative process that will take a year. He please with them for their patience, he heard a lot of conclusions drawn about property taxes, schools (He says, I don't know where that came from in an annoyed tone of voice), sitings, etc. we are getting ahead of ourselves, we want to hear you, this is an iterative process and we will come to conclusions that will ameliorate the issues or get you answers.
C: Same guy still talking that originally asked about the quiet zones, he says he tried to get answers, he found a phone number, called 4 times, message machine not working, then he called Donna Brown at DOT in Milwaukee 4 times, he could leave a message, waited 4 days, not a word, and he told her his questions, they were basic and simple. He then emailed, did get an reply, but no answer, if this is the process we can’t wait a year.
C: Someone says we need to decide in the next 90 days according to the grant.
C: Jerk in the back of the room who is not helping with a tense meeting yells at him to "sit down and shut up".
NOTE: I thought there was going to be a physical altercation as the quiet zones guy went back to confront the "sit down and shut up guy".
NOTE: I know the names of more than a majority of people who spoke and were involved, but I don't know everyone's names so I'm leaving them all out.
C: DOT apologizes for the phone number, will give his number 266-1114 (I think that was Paul) he will answer any question.
Q: What about the quiet zones?
A3: If infrastructure in place, can’t image why we would eliminate it.
Q: Fencing?
A: Don’t know answers to the questions don’t have them cuz we committed we won’t do it til we get public input, no decision on fencing or station design until public input, so no answers. They says they will have the same process they did for the Marquette interchange, they had over 3000 meetings since 1996.
C: Rummel thanks the quiet zone guy for working so hard on these issues.
NOTE: People have largely left as it is apparent there are no answers to the questions they came for.
Q: Will they use the whole right of way or can they keep the plantings they have in the right of way?
A: They will likely use the whole width of the railroad property on both sides of the tracks.
Q: Will there be two high speed rail and one freight track.
A: They have not determined if 2 or 1 track, that is part of the process, there will be a corridor management plan and that will determine the width of the right of way, they will be working with people. If community gardens are encroaching on right of way, they will have to look at it, may be opportunity to use some of that property.
Q/C: More worried about traffic (doesn't live on east side) How will this impact traffic on John Nolen and other places they have to travel around downtown? (Makes snide remark about not caring about the color of the fence.) Will there be groups to talk about permanent crossings and bridges so people can cross and walk freely? If not, leave it on the outskirts of town, no one would go back and put the trains where they are, but we can build bridges and pathways, should be done before more planning goes on.
A: They will do the traffic analysis, will try to mitiage and have efficient movement.
Q: I like trains, he lives close and deals with the noise, do people out there agree with me about trains being good?
A: Clapping.
C: Thanks, I just wanted to show that there are supporters in the room, looks like 50/50
Q: Will the trains be much lighter and shorter and not make the same noise, and is it possible to have lights timed so short commuter trains can come through?
A: They will work on quiet zones and safety yes, new passenger trains are primary safety issues, quieter, lighter and better on safety issues. This is not a freight train, you will not hear them the same, locomotives are different, may not hear or see as quickly as a freight train.
A2: They will run on welded rail, not 40 foot rail that makes more noise, concrete ties are also going to help with stability and quieter ride.
C: Speaker gets up to speak and says to the jerk in the back of the room "please don't yell at me, I'm a teacher and I get that all day long.
C: Homeowner in area, would like a fence, can’t build one cuz of easement.
Q: Asks how they chose this route instead of Canadian Pacific, which is more of a commercial area, why is it where all the neighborhoods are.
A: They looked at that, same number of crossings. Communities not the same, but not a time difference, this doesn’t preclude them using that line when they are going to the twin cities, that could be a route out.
Q: Guy says he's pro-rail, but the studies they based this on are old, there have been lots of expansions, in other suburb areas and as time goes on, the number of people who use the train will increase from outside the area, thought meeting was positive, but why downtown?
A: Not directly answered this time.
Q: Will it not go to St. Paul?
A: That will be studied. That will take 2 - 3 years to do the environmental study.
Q: Will they be building a second station in 2016?
A: That will be studied.
Q: Who will pay for that second station? People in City of Madison pay for it and 60% of the users are outside of City of Madison.
A: Station costs are included in the $810M includes cost to build stations so working through that.
C: Seems like there are more comments than questions, so I decided to add my comments, he wonders where all the fears are coming from with long trains, these are 8 cars long, they will be quicker than a stoplight if you are stopped, he says the fears are not warranted. Says the trains won't be more disruptive than the 60K cars on E Washington per day or the 80K cars on the beltline.
Q: Will this be an integrated multi-modal station? How will people get downtown?
A: They are working with the City to address elements of station from an inter-modal perspective.
Q: Why not delay to get it right?
A: We've been working on it for a long time.
Q: What about the tracks in Central Park can they be relocated?
A: Yes looking at it, have that info from the city, part of the consideration.
SUMMARY
We don't know.
There will be a process.
We will look at things you brought up.
Nobody believes them due to how the process has gone so far.
Read more!
Showing posts with label Education. Show all posts
Showing posts with label Education. Show all posts
Thursday, May 27, 2010
Wednesday, May 19, 2010
Live Blog of the Common Council Meeting, Part IV (Final)
12:55, 26 more speakers . . . no breaks!
Dennis Davidsaver lives and works downtown, asks them to follow laws and look at benefits and approve it. Lives in a neighborhood with large corporate neighbors and they contribute to safety and upkeep of neighborhood. They create economic development and ability to live and work in same neighborhood. Monona Terrace was a split issue too, but can anyone argue the positive impact they will have. Time to take another bold step forward. Edgewater is a landmark, but well worn, its a unique site, needs complex plan, fortunate to have Hammes to solve these issues to bring Edgewater back. We have an experienced and capable developer. Your approval will bring economic development. Gary Gorman sends regards from China, thinks it should be passed as well.
Bert Stitt and one other person went home.
I spoke - can't say what I said . . .
Rosemary Lee talking . . . missed it as I returned to my seat and talked to others.
[IT WAS JUST POINTED OUT TO ME THAT ITS GETTING LATE, MAYOR DAVE TOOK HIS CONTACTS OUT]
Camille Haney nothing to add, sat here for so long going to get two cents in, and she does, repeats testimony from Landmarks essentially and I'm not retyping it, saving my fingers for the actual debate, if we ever get there.
Mayor says all the rest of the speakers are in support it's 1:15 and I'm just taking a break, you'll have to go check out Kristin's live blog . . .
Those who spoke in support include:
- Melissa Mayer
- Allen Arntsen, Hammes paid lobbyist
- Amy Supple, Hammes paid lobbyist, passes
- Ken Saiki, Hammes paid lobbyist, left
- Steve Beitlow, Building Trades council, of course they, too, have skin in the game, but they don't want a PLA
- David Walsh, from NGL
- Michael Engelberger, Labor speaks
- Susan Schnmitz DMI passes
- Paul Davidsaver passes
- Kelley Star King - went home
- Mark Hoffman - Labor
- Tom Bergamini passes
- Ryan from labor passes
- Erik Minton went home
- Erin Freeburg left
- George Kampersorer left
- James Tye pass
- Michael Christopher passes
- Paul Davidsaver passes
- Dan Cornelius left
[HEY ALL THOSE GUYS IN THE ORANGE SHIRTS THAT WERE IN HERE WHEN ONLY SPEAKERS WERE SUPPOSED TO GET SEATS NEVER SPOKE . . . WAY TO GO LABOR GUYS. I GUESS THE RULES DIDN'T APPLY TO THEM.
QUESTIONS OF SPEAKERS
None.
CLOSE THE PUBLIC HEARING/RECESS
They decide to take a break, 9 want one, be back at 1:50
[IT LOOKS LIKE ABOUT A DOZEN PIZZAS WERE CONSUMED, THE MACHINES ARE OUT OF DIET COKE DOWNSTAIRS, THE CHOCOLATE COVERED COFFEE BEANS ARE KICKING IN, ITS JUST ABOUT 2:00, ALL ALDERS STILL PRESENT, NOT ALL IN THE ROOM]
PUBLIC COMMENTS ON TIF
They give people 4 minutes since they pared down their speakers
Robert Hundun, Hunden Strategic Partners, they did the hotel studies, he talks about what changed since they did their studies, but the Edgewater is still the best bet for the downtown. He was asked to review additional analysis, they have the HMI study and they looked at it and also looked at other documents to provide their opinion. His role is not a proponent or against a project, but his analysis is that this is a compelling project. The HMI study, their methodology, they did not see the Edgewater as a near luxury hotel and we see it differently, they didn't think it would perform differently or as well as the Hilton, they think the Hilton is great, when you have a high calliber hotel come in with marginal or moderate space . . . 30 seconds, says adr is off, the occupancy rates are off, the jobs impact is off, Mayor cuts him off
Bob Dunn - 4 minutes, different perspective than the market study, this is a very useful study, they did market research and all come to a number of conclusions, in looking at the analysis, with respect to the market, they exclude 107 rooms there, ignores the mixed use nature of the development, doesn't seem to be consistent with current design, rate for their hotel is at 110% or 115% of the market, could go on, also talks about what happened when Hilton entered the market, 23% market increased at low point in industry on heels of 911 and the results weren't that bad. He says the revenue is off - non-room revenue after spending $100M only grows by 15% so it takes absolute most conservative approach to the analysis that you can take. It represents a 9% decrease from the revenue. He's rattling off numbers . . . .he gets cut off.
Michael Hule, did the study,
[I MISSED WHAT WAS GOING ON BECAUSE A WHOLE BUNCH OF US WHO REGISTERED TO SPEAK WERE NOT LISTED AS SPEAKERS, WE HAD TO GET THE CLERK TO FIND OUR SLIPS, I DON'T KNOW WHO AGREED THAT THE SPEAKERS WOULD BE LIMITED, BUT IT WASN'T THE SPEAKERS]
5 Hoteliers speak . . . I'm sorry, I didn't blog it, I was making sure I had my testimony ready on TIF.
Lucy Mathiak here as an individual member of Board of Education, elected for last 4 years, on finance committee, spent 2 years as liaison on common council school board liaison committee. On Joint Board of Review. Not opposed to TIF. This is not private money, TIF decisions have profound impacts on other taxing authorities, the public schools are a major partner and you are loaning them our money as well. This affects all of us. The schools are here to educate kids, not to be an economic development engine. She says state and federal decisions have eroded support for education. They lost $18M in state aid in one year. In the first 8 years they have had many cuts adding up to $22M, they have more kids that are hungry with little or no support with home and with little health care, including mental health. We have some schools at 90% or more poverty level. We can't tax to the max, cuz they can't afford it, but keeping TIF open, money won't come back to schools and cut off . . . says thank you Mayor Dave, I know you care. [I THINK THAT WAS SARCASM]
Gary Peterson speaks, supports Edgewater, has done blight studies and TIF studies, did blight studies in the 60s, talks about the issues he ahs seen, Mansion Hill area is blighted under state law. We need it to assist with development of Edgewater, problems area wide, the alternatives they were shown should have had other options and
Robbie Webber says she wouldn't vote for it, huge amount of money, breaks many of our policies, we looked at TIF policy and made rules for a good reasons. The 50% rule was put in place, this is 240%, it will not support itself, won't pay it back. It breaks the policies, when you add these things up and doesn't that raise soem red flags, she voted against a popular good project when she was on the council, this is far beyond that, this is not a good use of $16M. The public amenities and public use they are going to be able to close the plaza for 15 days of the year, when, every Saturday in the summer, if approve it, put serious restrictions on when the plaza can be closed and make sure you get real public access. Urge not to approve it, if do restrict number of weekends and summer nights that they can close the publci access.
I spoke, most of it was in my previous post on the TIF meeting last night, well, Monday night.
Pete Ostlind says that the costs in the report from the expert don't add up to $16M and many areas included in the public access are items that are not public access. He talks about the Brasser numbers, he says the conservation easement is where we preserve what was already supposed to be preserved. We've sold it and paid for it many times, this doesn't pass the smell test. I missed a bunch.
Ledell Zellers speaks, public plaza can be closed any time, except from 7 - 8 am, that is not a public plaza.
2:40 QUESTIONS OF STAFF
Bidar Sielaff asks about jobs and hotels, what ratio do you use per room, what is the industry standards.
1.5 - 1.75 per room
So fair to say for 200 room hotel?
It would be 150
Eagon asks Dunn, on the condos and public access and what $16M will go for?
Dunn says that total cost is $34M, he repeats himself he says $16M are the public access areas, there are other structural things that need to happen. In the city's analysis, they deleted costs that still have to be paid for, he can go through it in great detail if they would like. You are contributing $16M of the $34.
Eagon asks about condos and how they benefit the project.
Dunn says that per TIF policy no recognition of the condos, they didn't like the city's approach, that aspect of the program is not eligible, we are looking at the total new construction, basing value of hotel on . . .
ooops, interrupted . . .
Verveer asks about the condos, how many condo units will this be on the top two floors?
Dunn says you could have 10 small units, they will not have that many units, will have small number of larger units, he thinks 6 or fewer.
Verveer asks how many suites.
Dunn says 10.
Verveer says he thought it was 17 per floor.
Dunn says they would be suites.
Verveer asks why if they are condos why will it have no impact on hotel revenues.
Dunn says city looks at it and assume new construction is fully occupied. They think of it as 6 floors of hotel room and 2 floors of condos. If they built it as hotel suits, it would generate extra income. Condos are important because the profit from the condos will go to the public access part of the program.
Verveer asks if they approve land use but not the TIF, what would you build without it.
Dunn says there is no project?
Verveer asks if it is for the PAC?
Dunn says we can't take it apart and put it back together without dealing with the PAC, he thinks that in order to pursue the project, removal of the 70s addition, its all tied together, with no TIF, there is no project. With the redesign from UDC, there is $8M more in costs, no additional rooms or condos, $8M of costs and worked hard to over come it, a portion covered by NGL for parking. PAC has gotten more expensive with each iteration, if more expensive and take TIF away.
Dunn shows the slide that shows the changes from each project. He says the public access piece is getting more expensive.
Verveer asks about management agreement, he says they got the different versions of the public access agreement, it doesn't have the word draft on it, told there will be a process later, is this document negotiable, or is the negotiation done? Is this something to be further negotiated.
Dunn says it has been negotiated, one thing that is important is that when first started the negotiations, not clear who would own and operate the space and the concept of that agreement was that we would negotiate something that would work no matter who owns and manages it. He says it is reciprocal. You have to look at both sides of the agreement, he thinks it is the principle terms, but there is more work to be done.
Verveer asks what that means, room for refinement?
Dunn says the basic terms are agreed to, but work to be done, this is a partnership, both parties need to find good solutions. They have looked at how Monona Terrace operates, more work to be done, but it will take to work through it.
Verveer asks what are we getting for $16M and he has concerns about specifics in the May 12 document, you're saying that the basic tenants of this management agreement have been negotiated, is that right, and the council will look at the specifics later. Would you object to major modifications?
Dunn says he'd have to understand a major modification. We could end up on either side of that agreement and city could too, what is a major modification. Is it hours of operation, event space.
Verveer says its all of the above. He has concerns on page 3, certain areas could be open 1 hour a day.
Dunn says that is not accurate.
Verveer asks if would negotiate it further.
Dunn wants to speak to one hour per day, he says on the plaza there is the right of way, that is what the city has today, In last iterations, they expanded the public space to include more, they get benefit of private space owned outside the right of way. He says the way the agreement is written there are three areas to be used for events, when there is an event, the public still has full access rights, they can still go down the stair and to the waterfront. I missed some, he says that it will be open more than one hour a day, 15 days a year they can close it completely, for instance 4th of July [GUESS THE DUDE WON'T BE WATCHING RHYTHM AND BOOMS] He says they should also have 8 days for community based organizations with no cost to them. He can's see how people interpret the document any other way.
Rummel says sorry she missed yesterday, she had a neighborhood meeting planned for a long time. Right now, public access can't be closed, with this they can.
Dunn says that they should clarify closed, he says if there is a wedding 4 - 10 in one area, what we were striving for was to bring those events downtown and be open to public, that event would take place in one area, but the public has access to the other space.
Rummel says people say we are paying for what we already have, what do we have now with the 1965 ordinance.
Dunn says rights of the public today, you could go there right now, almost all space is controlled area for mechanical equipment, there is 16 of space available, the majority is not accessible.
Rummel says she wants to know waht the spirit was, not the poor execution. Assuming you will charge to close off the space, is that part of the non-room revenue.
Dunn says you give 16m and we give 18m we take on operating costs forever, so yes, we generate revenue, they said city could own and operate and we could rent it, and response was that city won't put $34M in and maintain it, but we would like the rights for the public which led us to where we are today. Missed some.
Rummel asks how much time do they need for the event space to generate the revenue they need. Totally open to public or partially open to the public, neither is bad.
Rummel says she wants to know changes so they know what they are getting. The trades guy says that they don't need a PLA but heard you they have PLA can you explain.
Dunn says there is a PLA, but there is no project to sign it around.
Rummel asks about the jobs. How many at the living wage.
Dunn says look at packet from last October or November, they haven't changed, but been greatly distorted. He explains the numbers are on and off site jobs, missed a bunch again . . . lots of negotiations and side conversations going on, very interesting, don't know what they are about, but its 3:15 and people are looking weary.
Rummel asks about Landmarks and tax credits, would that reduce the cost of the project.
Dunn says not the cost, but becomes a source of financing, they do account for that on their side of the ledger. He says these conservation easements are used, if we can't do all that, its our problem.
Rummel asks about what happens if you don't have the money, will you give up parts of project for tax credits.
Dunn says he can't say.
Rummel asks if they would forego it.
Dunn says that they have to explore it.
Kerr says there was negotiation, who on the city side invovled.
Dunn says Gromacki and Zellhoefer.
Verveer asks Hule to finish his tesimony.
Hule talks about Hilton, says the Hilton was necessary to make Monona Terrace successful, that was one of the main driving points, this project is across downtown, not terribly far, but not attached to or adjacent to the convention center. It won't be participating in the convention business, if it is going to hit 70% occupancy they would need to lower rate to participate and also lower rates to get state business.
Verveer asks him to respond to Hundun's claim your study is flawed.
Hule two different experts with different points of view, can have a luxury hotel, the projections on this hotel will not reach the rates, the Pfister doesn't.
Pham-Remmele asks one of the hotelier, she asks at this time with the economy how well is the business doing. How successful?
A guy says room tax for 2009 was down 2009 and now see the room tax for first quarter up a little bit, so no where near 2008 and won't be there until 2013 at the earliest. 2010 will be above 2009 and it will take a while to get back.
Pham-Remmele says rarely pay rack rate, wonders how many of the rooms are taken for rate asking for, can go to hotwire and get cheap rates.
Guy says that that is what most people do. So, all hotels at one level or another, we participate in Orbitz, Hotline etc, also do government business, $70 is the state rate, we do it ta fill room and keep employees, room rates are down and will continue to be done. Travelers know the deals are out there.
Pham-Remmele says used to book rooms for conferences in 90s but now have to do teleconference, she can't afford it. Many peopel she knows people can't afford to travel, concerned how many would pay $300 to stay in the hotel. She asks about the restaurant, nice waiter, but within a few minutes, he couldn't wait on their table, like him and glad to tip, he was called to work, but told to go home, when talk about jobs, she feels bad, person shows up for work, he didn't get paid for the night. [PEOPLE ARE LOSING IT . . . ]
He says that happens in all restaurants.
She's still talking and repeating herself.
Mayor closes the hearing on 22.
LAND USE/PUD
Cnare makes motion of adoption, and recommendations of plan commission with an amended condition. She talks about the letter from Brad Murphy on Secretary of Interior language is struck, with the exception of the entrance, the one story addition and some other area, the design has to go back to Landmarks' commission.
QUESTIONS
Rummel would like to see it, it was alot of words. Clear is going to get it printed.
Bidar-Sielaff asks Murphy about the memo and the conversation, did he say they don't have purview over this project.
Murphy says yes, he didn't talk to state, Tim Parks did, they don't have jurisdiction unless they apply for tax credits. They can't review it, the city can't compel them to do so.
Bidar-Sielaff says no jurisdiction. Murphy agrees. She asks Parks to confirm, she says yes.
Mayor asks if while getting copies should they take up 5.
CONDITIONAL USE
Mayor asks May to explain.
Clear moves to accept the appeal.
They vote wihtout discussion.
Cnare moves to uphold the decision based on materials and what they heard, she reads the items they need to find. I audio recorded this, and can type it later.
It's seconded.
She hopes that they read the 120 pages of the transcript, she says look at the standards, they had three motions they take at the same time, she says that if you look at the meeting, they had a report from staff, they went through step by step and we have discussion and it doesn't always touch on each point, instructions say if approve and you agree standards are met, then move to council, they only say to say why not if they feel it does not meet it. If denied, they tell developer what they can do to get approval. They acted like they do. 7 hours of public testimony, they asked questions, this was not taken in order. They heard that it would improve the area, improve the tax base and parking. Also discussed waterfront setback. There were 67 people registered in support, 11 in opposition. She tells them to look at the staff report. staff report says the standards "could be met" she thinks that going through the experience, reading the minutes etc, if you return to plan commission, it won't change anything, it wasn't unanimous, shouldn't stand in way of looking at transcript and move on.
Kerr says she id defensive as the maker of the motion, she felt the conditional use standards had been met, heard testimony, read the report and felt standards were met, if she felt they weren't met she would have made a different motion. Hard not to be defensive, feels like plan commission did their job and wants to reassure her, political pressure wouldn't have an impact on her, if she felt she should, she'd deny it.
Compton says she would bet the ranch on that statement. She asks about why they are using the verbaiage about it being better for public welfare instead of not hurt it.
Murphy says he didn't make the motion.
Kitty Noonan drafted the motion, lets heard form her says the Mayor.
Noonan says it comes from testimony from the transcript.
Compton asks if that is how to address?
Noonan says the standard is negative instead of positive, but that is the way it was in the testimony.
Compton is uncomfortable with the language, not taking a pill that will make everything wonderful and beautiful instead of it won't harm me. Is there a reason.
Noonan says that without the finding being noted, that this was a way to highlight the testimony and findings that underlay the decision they made.
Cnare says this isn't an executive summary, if you want to list the standards, they plan commission did its job and it should be passed tonight.
Schumacher says not on plan commission as long as Kerr and Cnare, he is grumpy, this appeal stinks. The same group that doesn't want us to overturn one commission but wants this overturned. Plan commission has great members and staff. Given we had 7 hours of testimony he find audacity to come after us, appreciates what Cnare did.
Rummel says she understands that nothing should change, but plan commission should have better best practices. UDC doesn't have this kind of staff, we are encouraged to be clear when we find it meets standards. There was 7 hours of testimony and maybe someone felt the case wasn't made and you didn't talk about it, maybe you felt like it, but you didn't deliberate in any verbal way. You should be more mindful.
Bidar-Sielaff says she is clarifying info about the Standards if the they apply for tax credits.
Motion passes on voice vote, seems unanimous.
TAKE 3 BACK OFF THE TABLE
They all have copies now, the rest of us don't.
Compton asks a question I missed.
Murphy says that as they read 1, 2 and 3, the condition says that those elements must be submitted for review by the landmarks commission, doesn't require approval, just review. If you want landmarks to approve it, you should add the word "and approval" in 2 and 3.
Compton appreciates the recommendation but she does not want to.
Murphy says that all it requires is review. If PUD approved that is all that is required.
Compton asks if they could refer it many times, is there a reason it needs to go to Landmarks.
Murphy can't answer it.
Cnare says this reflects what the plan commission wanted, can't do what they wanted, they think historic renovation is important to the project and it should be looked at someone who is an expert. If state won't do it, would like Landmarks to do it, its comfort language to say they think historic preservation is important.
Compton asks if it is just a review it?
Cnare hopes they will offer concrete advice and developer will think it is helpful. She would ask Noonan what is in their purview. She says that landmarks asked to see it, it shouldn't be a big problem for them or the developer.
Noonan says not formal construct for the review, doesn't know Landmarks well, knows they do review things from time to time and these conditions were put on the conditions of appropriateness, staff and commission would review to see if they met.
Verveer moves separation of the 1940's language. They can vote on the rest of the motion.
Verveer asks Murphy about the suggested language change.
Murphy says when they send something back for final approval it is for the approval of the final details, not just review, if you want to be consistent, you would require approval.
4 AM . . . sigh . . .
He says that in number one might want to say that it has to be conducted to Secretary of the Interior standards for the exterior only.
I missed a bunch of Murphy explanation of adding language to the extent possible as approved by the Landmarks commission in item one.
Verveer makes motion to include approval and the language for one. Compton says it is not friendly.
DISCUSSION ON THE AMENDMENT
Hopes not controversial, he says he support it, appreciates Kerr's attempt to respect the integrity of the tower. Landmarks commission can take care of the details, it was their intention to see the details later, they were not presented to them, this is the minutia they deal with regularly. This isn't controversial.
Compton says she has a problem cuz Landmarks opposes the project, woudl like ti to go to another body. She realizes not popular.
Calls the question.
Mayor ignores them and calls on Rummel.
Rummel says something I didn't understand, my bad.
Bidar-Sielaff support this, if modify decision of landmarks, this should be in the language, they need to review it. There has been a collegial conversation with the 40s building and there is an interest with the applicant to work with them, this is how we do the process.
Maniaci asks if this would jeopardize the the Certificate of Appropriateness.
May says no, these are common conditions, its a completely different opinion.
Manaici says that this will not hold up the project?
May says it shouldn't this is routine.
Clear says that they can't issue the building permit until cleared, they would still have veto approval.
Murphy says that they can appeal to the Common Council if concerned, this was staff's original recommendation. Missed some.
Bidar Sielaff asks if this was added to COA (Cert of Approval) would . . .oh, I don't know.
Rummel asks if we just leave it off, what would it do, we are granting and exception, can they delete the last part.
Murphy says the exception were based on conversation with state, those three exception that wouldn't comply with secretary of interior standards, that is why they are there, we are certain those elements of the project, even tho desirable, they most likely would not comply with the Secretary of Interior standards.
Rummel says he's willing to find out more.
Verveer assures Compton that the landmarks commission agreed and loved the 1940s buidling renovation, so I don't want you to think they don't want the project done, Manaici can confirm it, they won't put up road blocks to that. He also wants to address Rummel that if they pursue tax credits, this language won't preclude that, they still need the full review by the State Historical Society.
Clear says can support most of it, but can't support approve, cuz ti will get us back to where we are today and they could reject it out of spite, he is concerned they are handing them a loaded gun. [REALLY?]
Kerr says the front canopy as designed is better than built, but Secretary standards require to restore what was built. She think people on landmarks would agree.
Compton doesn't' doubt integrity of landmarks, but we should remove cloud or question, she wants to have it reviewed by landmarks and approved by staff.
Bidar-Sielaff says this is not a group of obstructionists, they will provide feedback and review. They have seen them work, they don't seem concerned that it will stop the project. Has been through hours of meetings, the 40s building is collegial, this is the usual process, she doesn't see that as problematic.
Clear agrees with Bidar-Sielaff, he thinks the could review, wants to go back to Maniaci's language at Landmarks, gave discretion to staff or landmarks commission.
Compton wants to rebut - city attorney says this is three - they give her leeway after she argues with them.
Compton says that no one is challenging the integrity of landmarks, it might sound like it, we're dealing with a business and millions of dollars, can little thinks happen, minor things could slow things done, she wants to remove a cloud, she thinks they can be successful, its not her $100M and need to protect all parties, we have a history of referrals, if we pass all this tonight, then move it forward, doesn't want it to trip on this language. Staff should approve.
Mayor re-reads the motion. Have audio, can add it later.
ROLL CALL
Passes 12 - 8
Nos are Clear, Compton, King, Maniaci, Pham-Remmele, SAnborn, Schumacher, Skidmore.
Amendment passes on voice vote, some nos.
AMENDMENT ON CHANGE TO PAC
Verveer has another amendment
Any change to public access component shall be considered a major alteration, especially any change which would include fencing or gates, to be approved by Common Council.
Verveer says that it wouldn't be minor alteration changed by alder and staff, major alteration has a public process and can have public input.
Eagon asks if it is any change, he asks if it could say any non-minor alterations.
Verveer says that it is no disrespect to the process, but it is his intent to have ti be a major intent, asks Murphy to give examples about what the alterations would be.
Murphy says the physical site plan for the area, not the use and maintenance agreement for the public space that will come back later.
Verveer agrees, he not talking about the agreement yet to be approved.
Murphy says if there is a proposal to make the spaces less accessible, that is not minor and should be considered by plan commission or common council as major alterations. There may be some minor changes between now and when building permits are issued. If the project is approved, the plans will have to meet all conditions of approval and city engineer says we need to ensure the areas are accessible. There will be some evolution of design between now and final sign off, if staff can approval things that are minor and consistent with conditions of approval.
Eagon want the language to be changed.
Verveer says there would be no point, its not a hardship. If it is minusculely minor, they can approve it.
Maniaci asks if it includes snow fencing, is it temporary or permanent.
Verveer asks if it si during the construction phase?
Manici says any at all.
Verveer is worried about fences for events, even if erected and removed every Saturday during the high season it should be approved. If it is for repair or maintenance or during construction it is ok.
Maniaci asks Murphy if he agrees with the assessment given the language.
Murphy's only concern is the one Eagon expressed, "any change" to the plans reviewing this evening, there will be changes, some will be minor or major and this suggests any deviation is a major alteration, and approved by plan and council.
Maniaci says a snow fence would go through three committees.
Murphy thought temporary fences would not be covered, but Verveer said it would.
Manaici asks if they would have to approve every configuration for temporary fences.
Murphy says that is not a practical solution, maker of motion should explain.
Solomon makes motion to say, after any change that limits accessibility or freedom of movement shall be considered a major alteration. He says that defines major, and gets to what Eagon gets it.
Verveer says it is friendly, and yes it should be approved by the common council.
That is friendly.
Clear and Schumacher say things I missed and Murphy answers questions as we contemplate at which point they lose quorum because people have to go to work. Rumor has it some have to leave at 5;30, 6;00 and 6:30. We have also heard that they have to be out of the room at 7:00 for municipal court and they have room 260 reserved for if they go past 7:00, which could happen if they don't lose quorum as people leave to go to work . . .
Compton asks if they word permanent can be added, Verveer says its friendly.
Solomon calls the question.
Chaos as they decide how to word it.
Eagon reluctantly supports it, not much more micromanaging, seems like we are designing bike lands on Midvale Blvd. (or Monona?) Mayor re-reads the motion.
Passes on a voice vote, appears unanimous.
MAIN MTOION
They tried to call the question, ala Clear, motion failed 11-9, Rhodes Conway out of room, those who did not vote for it were:
Cnare, Kerr, Palm, Pham-Remmele, Rummel, Solomon, Verveer and Bidar-sielaff
ANOTHER AMENDMENT
He reads a really long thing I missed, he says it attempts to inhibit current plans as proposed in March, that this won't undermine plans recommended by plan, but memorialize the 1965 ordinance and what they got us for the view, is permanently preserved, he is hoping that in the future that view shed will be reserved. Hopes this condition will amplify that important statement. He says the language should not conflict.
It's getting light out, 4:50
Murphy says that he isn't sure about the elevations in the motion. 75 feet and 5x? feet and staff had not verified that this is consistent with the existing elevation at Langdon and Wisconsin Ave. He says the intent of the condition is clear, with the understanding that portions of the tower already encroach into the area, they can't confirm those two elevations. Murphy says you could take the specific elevations out and refer to a point on the plan.
Verveer asks how to do that.
Pause to figure out the language, Mayor says we have to move along, Murphy says they are not capable at this point of figuring it out - but he says it more eloquently then I just summarized.
Verveer asks for alternative language.
Murphy says that it is not meant to apply to elements on existing plans.
Verveer says the language would work.
Murphy has some language, they table it for Murphy to work on it.
Compton asks Dunn to speak to it.
Mayor says no, public hearing is done.
Read more!
Dennis Davidsaver lives and works downtown, asks them to follow laws and look at benefits and approve it. Lives in a neighborhood with large corporate neighbors and they contribute to safety and upkeep of neighborhood. They create economic development and ability to live and work in same neighborhood. Monona Terrace was a split issue too, but can anyone argue the positive impact they will have. Time to take another bold step forward. Edgewater is a landmark, but well worn, its a unique site, needs complex plan, fortunate to have Hammes to solve these issues to bring Edgewater back. We have an experienced and capable developer. Your approval will bring economic development. Gary Gorman sends regards from China, thinks it should be passed as well.
Bert Stitt and one other person went home.
I spoke - can't say what I said . . .
Rosemary Lee talking . . . missed it as I returned to my seat and talked to others.
[IT WAS JUST POINTED OUT TO ME THAT ITS GETTING LATE, MAYOR DAVE TOOK HIS CONTACTS OUT]
Camille Haney nothing to add, sat here for so long going to get two cents in, and she does, repeats testimony from Landmarks essentially and I'm not retyping it, saving my fingers for the actual debate, if we ever get there.
Mayor says all the rest of the speakers are in support it's 1:15 and I'm just taking a break, you'll have to go check out Kristin's live blog . . .
Those who spoke in support include:
- Melissa Mayer
- Allen Arntsen, Hammes paid lobbyist
- Amy Supple, Hammes paid lobbyist, passes
- Ken Saiki, Hammes paid lobbyist, left
- Steve Beitlow, Building Trades council, of course they, too, have skin in the game, but they don't want a PLA
- David Walsh, from NGL
- Michael Engelberger, Labor speaks
- Susan Schnmitz DMI passes
- Paul Davidsaver passes
- Kelley Star King - went home
- Mark Hoffman - Labor
- Tom Bergamini passes
- Ryan from labor passes
- Erik Minton went home
- Erin Freeburg left
- George Kampersorer left
- James Tye pass
- Michael Christopher passes
- Paul Davidsaver passes
- Dan Cornelius left
[HEY ALL THOSE GUYS IN THE ORANGE SHIRTS THAT WERE IN HERE WHEN ONLY SPEAKERS WERE SUPPOSED TO GET SEATS NEVER SPOKE . . . WAY TO GO LABOR GUYS. I GUESS THE RULES DIDN'T APPLY TO THEM.
QUESTIONS OF SPEAKERS
None.
CLOSE THE PUBLIC HEARING/RECESS
They decide to take a break, 9 want one, be back at 1:50
[IT LOOKS LIKE ABOUT A DOZEN PIZZAS WERE CONSUMED, THE MACHINES ARE OUT OF DIET COKE DOWNSTAIRS, THE CHOCOLATE COVERED COFFEE BEANS ARE KICKING IN, ITS JUST ABOUT 2:00, ALL ALDERS STILL PRESENT, NOT ALL IN THE ROOM]
PUBLIC COMMENTS ON TIF
They give people 4 minutes since they pared down their speakers
Robert Hundun, Hunden Strategic Partners, they did the hotel studies, he talks about what changed since they did their studies, but the Edgewater is still the best bet for the downtown. He was asked to review additional analysis, they have the HMI study and they looked at it and also looked at other documents to provide their opinion. His role is not a proponent or against a project, but his analysis is that this is a compelling project. The HMI study, their methodology, they did not see the Edgewater as a near luxury hotel and we see it differently, they didn't think it would perform differently or as well as the Hilton, they think the Hilton is great, when you have a high calliber hotel come in with marginal or moderate space . . . 30 seconds, says adr is off, the occupancy rates are off, the jobs impact is off, Mayor cuts him off
Bob Dunn - 4 minutes, different perspective than the market study, this is a very useful study, they did market research and all come to a number of conclusions, in looking at the analysis, with respect to the market, they exclude 107 rooms there, ignores the mixed use nature of the development, doesn't seem to be consistent with current design, rate for their hotel is at 110% or 115% of the market, could go on, also talks about what happened when Hilton entered the market, 23% market increased at low point in industry on heels of 911 and the results weren't that bad. He says the revenue is off - non-room revenue after spending $100M only grows by 15% so it takes absolute most conservative approach to the analysis that you can take. It represents a 9% decrease from the revenue. He's rattling off numbers . . . .he gets cut off.
Michael Hule, did the study,
[I MISSED WHAT WAS GOING ON BECAUSE A WHOLE BUNCH OF US WHO REGISTERED TO SPEAK WERE NOT LISTED AS SPEAKERS, WE HAD TO GET THE CLERK TO FIND OUR SLIPS, I DON'T KNOW WHO AGREED THAT THE SPEAKERS WOULD BE LIMITED, BUT IT WASN'T THE SPEAKERS]
5 Hoteliers speak . . . I'm sorry, I didn't blog it, I was making sure I had my testimony ready on TIF.
Lucy Mathiak here as an individual member of Board of Education, elected for last 4 years, on finance committee, spent 2 years as liaison on common council school board liaison committee. On Joint Board of Review. Not opposed to TIF. This is not private money, TIF decisions have profound impacts on other taxing authorities, the public schools are a major partner and you are loaning them our money as well. This affects all of us. The schools are here to educate kids, not to be an economic development engine. She says state and federal decisions have eroded support for education. They lost $18M in state aid in one year. In the first 8 years they have had many cuts adding up to $22M, they have more kids that are hungry with little or no support with home and with little health care, including mental health. We have some schools at 90% or more poverty level. We can't tax to the max, cuz they can't afford it, but keeping TIF open, money won't come back to schools and cut off . . . says thank you Mayor Dave, I know you care. [I THINK THAT WAS SARCASM]
Gary Peterson speaks, supports Edgewater, has done blight studies and TIF studies, did blight studies in the 60s, talks about the issues he ahs seen, Mansion Hill area is blighted under state law. We need it to assist with development of Edgewater, problems area wide, the alternatives they were shown should have had other options and
Robbie Webber says she wouldn't vote for it, huge amount of money, breaks many of our policies, we looked at TIF policy and made rules for a good reasons. The 50% rule was put in place, this is 240%, it will not support itself, won't pay it back. It breaks the policies, when you add these things up and doesn't that raise soem red flags, she voted against a popular good project when she was on the council, this is far beyond that, this is not a good use of $16M. The public amenities and public use they are going to be able to close the plaza for 15 days of the year, when, every Saturday in the summer, if approve it, put serious restrictions on when the plaza can be closed and make sure you get real public access. Urge not to approve it, if do restrict number of weekends and summer nights that they can close the publci access.
I spoke, most of it was in my previous post on the TIF meeting last night, well, Monday night.
Pete Ostlind says that the costs in the report from the expert don't add up to $16M and many areas included in the public access are items that are not public access. He talks about the Brasser numbers, he says the conservation easement is where we preserve what was already supposed to be preserved. We've sold it and paid for it many times, this doesn't pass the smell test. I missed a bunch.
Ledell Zellers speaks, public plaza can be closed any time, except from 7 - 8 am, that is not a public plaza.
2:40 QUESTIONS OF STAFF
Bidar Sielaff asks about jobs and hotels, what ratio do you use per room, what is the industry standards.
1.5 - 1.75 per room
So fair to say for 200 room hotel?
It would be 150
Eagon asks Dunn, on the condos and public access and what $16M will go for?
Dunn says that total cost is $34M, he repeats himself he says $16M are the public access areas, there are other structural things that need to happen. In the city's analysis, they deleted costs that still have to be paid for, he can go through it in great detail if they would like. You are contributing $16M of the $34.
Eagon asks about condos and how they benefit the project.
Dunn says that per TIF policy no recognition of the condos, they didn't like the city's approach, that aspect of the program is not eligible, we are looking at the total new construction, basing value of hotel on . . .
ooops, interrupted . . .
Verveer asks about the condos, how many condo units will this be on the top two floors?
Dunn says you could have 10 small units, they will not have that many units, will have small number of larger units, he thinks 6 or fewer.
Verveer asks how many suites.
Dunn says 10.
Verveer says he thought it was 17 per floor.
Dunn says they would be suites.
Verveer asks why if they are condos why will it have no impact on hotel revenues.
Dunn says city looks at it and assume new construction is fully occupied. They think of it as 6 floors of hotel room and 2 floors of condos. If they built it as hotel suits, it would generate extra income. Condos are important because the profit from the condos will go to the public access part of the program.
Verveer asks if they approve land use but not the TIF, what would you build without it.
Dunn says there is no project?
Verveer asks if it is for the PAC?
Dunn says we can't take it apart and put it back together without dealing with the PAC, he thinks that in order to pursue the project, removal of the 70s addition, its all tied together, with no TIF, there is no project. With the redesign from UDC, there is $8M more in costs, no additional rooms or condos, $8M of costs and worked hard to over come it, a portion covered by NGL for parking. PAC has gotten more expensive with each iteration, if more expensive and take TIF away.
Dunn shows the slide that shows the changes from each project. He says the public access piece is getting more expensive.
Verveer asks about management agreement, he says they got the different versions of the public access agreement, it doesn't have the word draft on it, told there will be a process later, is this document negotiable, or is the negotiation done? Is this something to be further negotiated.
Dunn says it has been negotiated, one thing that is important is that when first started the negotiations, not clear who would own and operate the space and the concept of that agreement was that we would negotiate something that would work no matter who owns and manages it. He says it is reciprocal. You have to look at both sides of the agreement, he thinks it is the principle terms, but there is more work to be done.
Verveer asks what that means, room for refinement?
Dunn says the basic terms are agreed to, but work to be done, this is a partnership, both parties need to find good solutions. They have looked at how Monona Terrace operates, more work to be done, but it will take to work through it.
Verveer asks what are we getting for $16M and he has concerns about specifics in the May 12 document, you're saying that the basic tenants of this management agreement have been negotiated, is that right, and the council will look at the specifics later. Would you object to major modifications?
Dunn says he'd have to understand a major modification. We could end up on either side of that agreement and city could too, what is a major modification. Is it hours of operation, event space.
Verveer says its all of the above. He has concerns on page 3, certain areas could be open 1 hour a day.
Dunn says that is not accurate.
Verveer asks if would negotiate it further.
Dunn wants to speak to one hour per day, he says on the plaza there is the right of way, that is what the city has today, In last iterations, they expanded the public space to include more, they get benefit of private space owned outside the right of way. He says the way the agreement is written there are three areas to be used for events, when there is an event, the public still has full access rights, they can still go down the stair and to the waterfront. I missed some, he says that it will be open more than one hour a day, 15 days a year they can close it completely, for instance 4th of July [GUESS THE DUDE WON'T BE WATCHING RHYTHM AND BOOMS] He says they should also have 8 days for community based organizations with no cost to them. He can's see how people interpret the document any other way.
Rummel says sorry she missed yesterday, she had a neighborhood meeting planned for a long time. Right now, public access can't be closed, with this they can.
Dunn says that they should clarify closed, he says if there is a wedding 4 - 10 in one area, what we were striving for was to bring those events downtown and be open to public, that event would take place in one area, but the public has access to the other space.
Rummel says people say we are paying for what we already have, what do we have now with the 1965 ordinance.
Dunn says rights of the public today, you could go there right now, almost all space is controlled area for mechanical equipment, there is 16 of space available, the majority is not accessible.
Rummel says she wants to know waht the spirit was, not the poor execution. Assuming you will charge to close off the space, is that part of the non-room revenue.
Dunn says you give 16m and we give 18m we take on operating costs forever, so yes, we generate revenue, they said city could own and operate and we could rent it, and response was that city won't put $34M in and maintain it, but we would like the rights for the public which led us to where we are today. Missed some.
Rummel asks how much time do they need for the event space to generate the revenue they need. Totally open to public or partially open to the public, neither is bad.
Rummel says she wants to know changes so they know what they are getting. The trades guy says that they don't need a PLA but heard you they have PLA can you explain.
Dunn says there is a PLA, but there is no project to sign it around.
Rummel asks about the jobs. How many at the living wage.
Dunn says look at packet from last October or November, they haven't changed, but been greatly distorted. He explains the numbers are on and off site jobs, missed a bunch again . . . lots of negotiations and side conversations going on, very interesting, don't know what they are about, but its 3:15 and people are looking weary.
Rummel asks about Landmarks and tax credits, would that reduce the cost of the project.
Dunn says not the cost, but becomes a source of financing, they do account for that on their side of the ledger. He says these conservation easements are used, if we can't do all that, its our problem.
Rummel asks about what happens if you don't have the money, will you give up parts of project for tax credits.
Dunn says he can't say.
Rummel asks if they would forego it.
Dunn says that they have to explore it.
Kerr says there was negotiation, who on the city side invovled.
Dunn says Gromacki and Zellhoefer.
Verveer asks Hule to finish his tesimony.
Hule talks about Hilton, says the Hilton was necessary to make Monona Terrace successful, that was one of the main driving points, this project is across downtown, not terribly far, but not attached to or adjacent to the convention center. It won't be participating in the convention business, if it is going to hit 70% occupancy they would need to lower rate to participate and also lower rates to get state business.
Verveer asks him to respond to Hundun's claim your study is flawed.
Hule two different experts with different points of view, can have a luxury hotel, the projections on this hotel will not reach the rates, the Pfister doesn't.
Pham-Remmele asks one of the hotelier, she asks at this time with the economy how well is the business doing. How successful?
A guy says room tax for 2009 was down 2009 and now see the room tax for first quarter up a little bit, so no where near 2008 and won't be there until 2013 at the earliest. 2010 will be above 2009 and it will take a while to get back.
Pham-Remmele says rarely pay rack rate, wonders how many of the rooms are taken for rate asking for, can go to hotwire and get cheap rates.
Guy says that that is what most people do. So, all hotels at one level or another, we participate in Orbitz, Hotline etc, also do government business, $70 is the state rate, we do it ta fill room and keep employees, room rates are down and will continue to be done. Travelers know the deals are out there.
Pham-Remmele says used to book rooms for conferences in 90s but now have to do teleconference, she can't afford it. Many peopel she knows people can't afford to travel, concerned how many would pay $300 to stay in the hotel. She asks about the restaurant, nice waiter, but within a few minutes, he couldn't wait on their table, like him and glad to tip, he was called to work, but told to go home, when talk about jobs, she feels bad, person shows up for work, he didn't get paid for the night. [PEOPLE ARE LOSING IT . . . ]
He says that happens in all restaurants.
She's still talking and repeating herself.
Mayor closes the hearing on 22.
LAND USE/PUD
Cnare makes motion of adoption, and recommendations of plan commission with an amended condition. She talks about the letter from Brad Murphy on Secretary of Interior language is struck, with the exception of the entrance, the one story addition and some other area, the design has to go back to Landmarks' commission.
QUESTIONS
Rummel would like to see it, it was alot of words. Clear is going to get it printed.
Bidar-Sielaff asks Murphy about the memo and the conversation, did he say they don't have purview over this project.
Murphy says yes, he didn't talk to state, Tim Parks did, they don't have jurisdiction unless they apply for tax credits. They can't review it, the city can't compel them to do so.
Bidar-Sielaff says no jurisdiction. Murphy agrees. She asks Parks to confirm, she says yes.
Mayor asks if while getting copies should they take up 5.
CONDITIONAL USE
Mayor asks May to explain.
Clear moves to accept the appeal.
They vote wihtout discussion.
Cnare moves to uphold the decision based on materials and what they heard, she reads the items they need to find. I audio recorded this, and can type it later.
It's seconded.
She hopes that they read the 120 pages of the transcript, she says look at the standards, they had three motions they take at the same time, she says that if you look at the meeting, they had a report from staff, they went through step by step and we have discussion and it doesn't always touch on each point, instructions say if approve and you agree standards are met, then move to council, they only say to say why not if they feel it does not meet it. If denied, they tell developer what they can do to get approval. They acted like they do. 7 hours of public testimony, they asked questions, this was not taken in order. They heard that it would improve the area, improve the tax base and parking. Also discussed waterfront setback. There were 67 people registered in support, 11 in opposition. She tells them to look at the staff report. staff report says the standards "could be met" she thinks that going through the experience, reading the minutes etc, if you return to plan commission, it won't change anything, it wasn't unanimous, shouldn't stand in way of looking at transcript and move on.
Kerr says she id defensive as the maker of the motion, she felt the conditional use standards had been met, heard testimony, read the report and felt standards were met, if she felt they weren't met she would have made a different motion. Hard not to be defensive, feels like plan commission did their job and wants to reassure her, political pressure wouldn't have an impact on her, if she felt she should, she'd deny it.
Compton says she would bet the ranch on that statement. She asks about why they are using the verbaiage about it being better for public welfare instead of not hurt it.
Murphy says he didn't make the motion.
Kitty Noonan drafted the motion, lets heard form her says the Mayor.
Noonan says it comes from testimony from the transcript.
Compton asks if that is how to address?
Noonan says the standard is negative instead of positive, but that is the way it was in the testimony.
Compton is uncomfortable with the language, not taking a pill that will make everything wonderful and beautiful instead of it won't harm me. Is there a reason.
Noonan says that without the finding being noted, that this was a way to highlight the testimony and findings that underlay the decision they made.
Cnare says this isn't an executive summary, if you want to list the standards, they plan commission did its job and it should be passed tonight.
Schumacher says not on plan commission as long as Kerr and Cnare, he is grumpy, this appeal stinks. The same group that doesn't want us to overturn one commission but wants this overturned. Plan commission has great members and staff. Given we had 7 hours of testimony he find audacity to come after us, appreciates what Cnare did.
Rummel says she understands that nothing should change, but plan commission should have better best practices. UDC doesn't have this kind of staff, we are encouraged to be clear when we find it meets standards. There was 7 hours of testimony and maybe someone felt the case wasn't made and you didn't talk about it, maybe you felt like it, but you didn't deliberate in any verbal way. You should be more mindful.
Bidar-Sielaff says she is clarifying info about the Standards if the they apply for tax credits.
Motion passes on voice vote, seems unanimous.
TAKE 3 BACK OFF THE TABLE
They all have copies now, the rest of us don't.
Compton asks a question I missed.
Murphy says that as they read 1, 2 and 3, the condition says that those elements must be submitted for review by the landmarks commission, doesn't require approval, just review. If you want landmarks to approve it, you should add the word "and approval" in 2 and 3.
Compton appreciates the recommendation but she does not want to.
Murphy says that all it requires is review. If PUD approved that is all that is required.
Compton asks if they could refer it many times, is there a reason it needs to go to Landmarks.
Murphy can't answer it.
Cnare says this reflects what the plan commission wanted, can't do what they wanted, they think historic renovation is important to the project and it should be looked at someone who is an expert. If state won't do it, would like Landmarks to do it, its comfort language to say they think historic preservation is important.
Compton asks if it is just a review it?
Cnare hopes they will offer concrete advice and developer will think it is helpful. She would ask Noonan what is in their purview. She says that landmarks asked to see it, it shouldn't be a big problem for them or the developer.
Noonan says not formal construct for the review, doesn't know Landmarks well, knows they do review things from time to time and these conditions were put on the conditions of appropriateness, staff and commission would review to see if they met.
Verveer moves separation of the 1940's language. They can vote on the rest of the motion.
Verveer asks Murphy about the suggested language change.
Murphy says when they send something back for final approval it is for the approval of the final details, not just review, if you want to be consistent, you would require approval.
4 AM . . . sigh . . .
He says that in number one might want to say that it has to be conducted to Secretary of the Interior standards for the exterior only.
I missed a bunch of Murphy explanation of adding language to the extent possible as approved by the Landmarks commission in item one.
Verveer makes motion to include approval and the language for one. Compton says it is not friendly.
DISCUSSION ON THE AMENDMENT
Hopes not controversial, he says he support it, appreciates Kerr's attempt to respect the integrity of the tower. Landmarks commission can take care of the details, it was their intention to see the details later, they were not presented to them, this is the minutia they deal with regularly. This isn't controversial.
Compton says she has a problem cuz Landmarks opposes the project, woudl like ti to go to another body. She realizes not popular.
Calls the question.
Mayor ignores them and calls on Rummel.
Rummel says something I didn't understand, my bad.
Bidar-Sielaff support this, if modify decision of landmarks, this should be in the language, they need to review it. There has been a collegial conversation with the 40s building and there is an interest with the applicant to work with them, this is how we do the process.
Maniaci asks if this would jeopardize the the Certificate of Appropriateness.
May says no, these are common conditions, its a completely different opinion.
Manaici says that this will not hold up the project?
May says it shouldn't this is routine.
Clear says that they can't issue the building permit until cleared, they would still have veto approval.
Murphy says that they can appeal to the Common Council if concerned, this was staff's original recommendation. Missed some.
Bidar Sielaff asks if this was added to COA (Cert of Approval) would . . .oh, I don't know.
Rummel asks if we just leave it off, what would it do, we are granting and exception, can they delete the last part.
Murphy says the exception were based on conversation with state, those three exception that wouldn't comply with secretary of interior standards, that is why they are there, we are certain those elements of the project, even tho desirable, they most likely would not comply with the Secretary of Interior standards.
Rummel says he's willing to find out more.
Verveer assures Compton that the landmarks commission agreed and loved the 1940s buidling renovation, so I don't want you to think they don't want the project done, Manaici can confirm it, they won't put up road blocks to that. He also wants to address Rummel that if they pursue tax credits, this language won't preclude that, they still need the full review by the State Historical Society.
Clear says can support most of it, but can't support approve, cuz ti will get us back to where we are today and they could reject it out of spite, he is concerned they are handing them a loaded gun. [REALLY?]
Kerr says the front canopy as designed is better than built, but Secretary standards require to restore what was built. She think people on landmarks would agree.
Compton doesn't' doubt integrity of landmarks, but we should remove cloud or question, she wants to have it reviewed by landmarks and approved by staff.
Bidar-Sielaff says this is not a group of obstructionists, they will provide feedback and review. They have seen them work, they don't seem concerned that it will stop the project. Has been through hours of meetings, the 40s building is collegial, this is the usual process, she doesn't see that as problematic.
Clear agrees with Bidar-Sielaff, he thinks the could review, wants to go back to Maniaci's language at Landmarks, gave discretion to staff or landmarks commission.
Compton wants to rebut - city attorney says this is three - they give her leeway after she argues with them.
Compton says that no one is challenging the integrity of landmarks, it might sound like it, we're dealing with a business and millions of dollars, can little thinks happen, minor things could slow things done, she wants to remove a cloud, she thinks they can be successful, its not her $100M and need to protect all parties, we have a history of referrals, if we pass all this tonight, then move it forward, doesn't want it to trip on this language. Staff should approve.
Mayor re-reads the motion. Have audio, can add it later.
ROLL CALL
Passes 12 - 8
Nos are Clear, Compton, King, Maniaci, Pham-Remmele, SAnborn, Schumacher, Skidmore.
Amendment passes on voice vote, some nos.
AMENDMENT ON CHANGE TO PAC
Verveer has another amendment
Any change to public access component shall be considered a major alteration, especially any change which would include fencing or gates, to be approved by Common Council.
Verveer says that it wouldn't be minor alteration changed by alder and staff, major alteration has a public process and can have public input.
Eagon asks if it is any change, he asks if it could say any non-minor alterations.
Verveer says that it is no disrespect to the process, but it is his intent to have ti be a major intent, asks Murphy to give examples about what the alterations would be.
Murphy says the physical site plan for the area, not the use and maintenance agreement for the public space that will come back later.
Verveer agrees, he not talking about the agreement yet to be approved.
Murphy says if there is a proposal to make the spaces less accessible, that is not minor and should be considered by plan commission or common council as major alterations. There may be some minor changes between now and when building permits are issued. If the project is approved, the plans will have to meet all conditions of approval and city engineer says we need to ensure the areas are accessible. There will be some evolution of design between now and final sign off, if staff can approval things that are minor and consistent with conditions of approval.
Eagon want the language to be changed.
Verveer says there would be no point, its not a hardship. If it is minusculely minor, they can approve it.
Maniaci asks if it includes snow fencing, is it temporary or permanent.
Verveer asks if it si during the construction phase?
Manici says any at all.
Verveer is worried about fences for events, even if erected and removed every Saturday during the high season it should be approved. If it is for repair or maintenance or during construction it is ok.
Maniaci asks Murphy if he agrees with the assessment given the language.
Murphy's only concern is the one Eagon expressed, "any change" to the plans reviewing this evening, there will be changes, some will be minor or major and this suggests any deviation is a major alteration, and approved by plan and council.
Maniaci says a snow fence would go through three committees.
Murphy thought temporary fences would not be covered, but Verveer said it would.
Manaici asks if they would have to approve every configuration for temporary fences.
Murphy says that is not a practical solution, maker of motion should explain.
Solomon makes motion to say, after any change that limits accessibility or freedom of movement shall be considered a major alteration. He says that defines major, and gets to what Eagon gets it.
Verveer says it is friendly, and yes it should be approved by the common council.
That is friendly.
Clear and Schumacher say things I missed and Murphy answers questions as we contemplate at which point they lose quorum because people have to go to work. Rumor has it some have to leave at 5;30, 6;00 and 6:30. We have also heard that they have to be out of the room at 7:00 for municipal court and they have room 260 reserved for if they go past 7:00, which could happen if they don't lose quorum as people leave to go to work . . .
Compton asks if they word permanent can be added, Verveer says its friendly.
Solomon calls the question.
Chaos as they decide how to word it.
Eagon reluctantly supports it, not much more micromanaging, seems like we are designing bike lands on Midvale Blvd. (or Monona?) Mayor re-reads the motion.
Passes on a voice vote, appears unanimous.
MAIN MTOION
They tried to call the question, ala Clear, motion failed 11-9, Rhodes Conway out of room, those who did not vote for it were:
Cnare, Kerr, Palm, Pham-Remmele, Rummel, Solomon, Verveer and Bidar-sielaff
ANOTHER AMENDMENT
He reads a really long thing I missed, he says it attempts to inhibit current plans as proposed in March, that this won't undermine plans recommended by plan, but memorialize the 1965 ordinance and what they got us for the view, is permanently preserved, he is hoping that in the future that view shed will be reserved. Hopes this condition will amplify that important statement. He says the language should not conflict.
It's getting light out, 4:50
Murphy says that he isn't sure about the elevations in the motion. 75 feet and 5x? feet and staff had not verified that this is consistent with the existing elevation at Langdon and Wisconsin Ave. He says the intent of the condition is clear, with the understanding that portions of the tower already encroach into the area, they can't confirm those two elevations. Murphy says you could take the specific elevations out and refer to a point on the plan.
Verveer asks how to do that.
Pause to figure out the language, Mayor says we have to move along, Murphy says they are not capable at this point of figuring it out - but he says it more eloquently then I just summarized.
Verveer asks for alternative language.
Murphy says that it is not meant to apply to elements on existing plans.
Verveer says the language would work.
Murphy has some language, they table it for Murphy to work on it.
Compton asks Dunn to speak to it.
Mayor says no, public hearing is done.
Read more!
Tuesday, May 18, 2010
School Board Discusses Edgewater TIF
It was a brief discussion, happening at the same time as the Council "briefing" on TIF, but interesting in that they seem to think that they would benefit greatly from the TIF district closing by getting taxes on an additional $120M in property value.x
Maya Cole announces the topic and turns it over to Lucy Mathiak.
Lucy Mathiak says that she wanted to give them a heads up, she has sent them information about opinions and analysis that has been done. She says thus far there have been several issues that have come up that they have no role in like the environmental or landmarks issue, at some point the city may approve the Edgewater plan and the TIF financing proposals and if and when that happens the city will come back to the board with the proposed TIF structure and they will be asked to vote on it, they will get a packet with the maps and descriptions in it. She wanted the item on the agenda for two reasons, first she will be speaking to the item as an individual, not as a school board representative but expressing some of the concerns that she has and what it means for their budget, it could help them a lot to close out the TIF. And she would hope they would close it and not extend its life. She would advise people to follow it, lots of information on line on city website, can't speak to where the city will go with it, there are a lot of things that are problematical that have nothing to do with us, but the finance packet does.
Arlene Silveira thanks Mathiak for sending them information, she wants to make sure the Board doesn't have something they should do tonight.
Mathiak says that there is nothing they can do because they wouldn't know what they are doing. She says that she wanted people to know she was speaking and she will be saying what she has said at other places and at other times. But that she recognizes that she does that as an individual, not representing the board because they have not had that discussion or consensus, their discussion will have to wait til the city makes its decisions.
Beth Moss says she is wary of TIF given what happened to them two years ago. What is the amount for University Square, how much money would they receive.
Erik Kass says that the University Square TIF will close three years from now, it won't be closing tomorrow, the Edgewater would extend that three years from now. [This differs from what Dean Brasser told the Council at their briefing, he said it could close in 2011, I believe the difference is that they know they have projects that they want to do in the next three years and would have kept it open, but also spend more money, money that is not going to be available to help pay back the Edgewater TIF, which means Brassers projections of it closing in 2019 need to be extended for another three years to 2022. At least I think that is what it means, its so hard to tell with all the smoke and mirrors.] He says the last projection was that there would be $1.3 to $1.7M in residual income, that would be split up according to the previous years tax levy. The school board is the biggest portion of it between the city, county and MATC, and they would expect to get 50 - 55% of it, but there is a secondary issue where the base is locked in at $80 or $70M, and it has increased to $200M in growth, that growth is great because once they get it back, that will allow the tax base to grow so no only will they get the money back, but the tax rate will decrease and impact on taxpayers will decrease, their revenue and property taxes are dictated by a state formula and the levy and the tax rate will go down.
Mathiak says it a slightly different way. Right now the properties are held at about $80M in value, the true value is over $200M, when that closes they get the value of the property taxes at the full $200M. So that is the issue for them, it is a substantial amount of property tax coming in.
Moss asks what happens to the state aid with that influx. Is it going to be the same scenario.
Kass says the was the aid formula treats that is like a tax revenue and we would be penalized, but there is no way of knowing where we will be in that formula. Under the levy it will have a positive effect, our property value not growing right now also has a positive effect, there are so many moving pieces that we would have to run some projections on what getting a half a million dollars will mean, it won't be as bad as last time because they got over $6M in one year. Which was larger than they ever received which was why the loss was so drastic, but he doesn't see it being that drastic this time.
Mathiak says that there is some dispute about when the TIF is ready to be closed out, the remaining piece that is out there has the word Edgewater on it so she thinks some of the money is going to plan for the Edgewater.
Kass says it could be, he is not sure.
Mathiak says that basically whatever happens, we are paying either through budget cuts or through what we are asking taxpayers to do, because of this project.
Kass says it is also a true statement that the Edgewater on its own would not be able to sustain itself, it would not be able to close within the 26 years. That is why they need to partner it with the University Square.
Mathiak says the second piece of that is that instead of paying for schools, the revenues that would be coming from that would be going to the Edgewater, so pick your poison, but I'd rather get some of that money into the school budgets.
With that, they have no more discussion and adjourn. Read more!
Maya Cole announces the topic and turns it over to Lucy Mathiak.
Lucy Mathiak says that she wanted to give them a heads up, she has sent them information about opinions and analysis that has been done. She says thus far there have been several issues that have come up that they have no role in like the environmental or landmarks issue, at some point the city may approve the Edgewater plan and the TIF financing proposals and if and when that happens the city will come back to the board with the proposed TIF structure and they will be asked to vote on it, they will get a packet with the maps and descriptions in it. She wanted the item on the agenda for two reasons, first she will be speaking to the item as an individual, not as a school board representative but expressing some of the concerns that she has and what it means for their budget, it could help them a lot to close out the TIF. And she would hope they would close it and not extend its life. She would advise people to follow it, lots of information on line on city website, can't speak to where the city will go with it, there are a lot of things that are problematical that have nothing to do with us, but the finance packet does.
Arlene Silveira thanks Mathiak for sending them information, she wants to make sure the Board doesn't have something they should do tonight.
Mathiak says that there is nothing they can do because they wouldn't know what they are doing. She says that she wanted people to know she was speaking and she will be saying what she has said at other places and at other times. But that she recognizes that she does that as an individual, not representing the board because they have not had that discussion or consensus, their discussion will have to wait til the city makes its decisions.
Beth Moss says she is wary of TIF given what happened to them two years ago. What is the amount for University Square, how much money would they receive.
Erik Kass says that the University Square TIF will close three years from now, it won't be closing tomorrow, the Edgewater would extend that three years from now. [This differs from what Dean Brasser told the Council at their briefing, he said it could close in 2011, I believe the difference is that they know they have projects that they want to do in the next three years and would have kept it open, but also spend more money, money that is not going to be available to help pay back the Edgewater TIF, which means Brassers projections of it closing in 2019 need to be extended for another three years to 2022. At least I think that is what it means, its so hard to tell with all the smoke and mirrors.] He says the last projection was that there would be $1.3 to $1.7M in residual income, that would be split up according to the previous years tax levy. The school board is the biggest portion of it between the city, county and MATC, and they would expect to get 50 - 55% of it, but there is a secondary issue where the base is locked in at $80 or $70M, and it has increased to $200M in growth, that growth is great because once they get it back, that will allow the tax base to grow so no only will they get the money back, but the tax rate will decrease and impact on taxpayers will decrease, their revenue and property taxes are dictated by a state formula and the levy and the tax rate will go down.
Mathiak says it a slightly different way. Right now the properties are held at about $80M in value, the true value is over $200M, when that closes they get the value of the property taxes at the full $200M. So that is the issue for them, it is a substantial amount of property tax coming in.
Moss asks what happens to the state aid with that influx. Is it going to be the same scenario.
Kass says the was the aid formula treats that is like a tax revenue and we would be penalized, but there is no way of knowing where we will be in that formula. Under the levy it will have a positive effect, our property value not growing right now also has a positive effect, there are so many moving pieces that we would have to run some projections on what getting a half a million dollars will mean, it won't be as bad as last time because they got over $6M in one year. Which was larger than they ever received which was why the loss was so drastic, but he doesn't see it being that drastic this time.
Mathiak says that there is some dispute about when the TIF is ready to be closed out, the remaining piece that is out there has the word Edgewater on it so she thinks some of the money is going to plan for the Edgewater.
Kass says it could be, he is not sure.
Mathiak says that basically whatever happens, we are paying either through budget cuts or through what we are asking taxpayers to do, because of this project.
Kass says it is also a true statement that the Edgewater on its own would not be able to sustain itself, it would not be able to close within the 26 years. That is why they need to partner it with the University Square.
Mathiak says the second piece of that is that instead of paying for schools, the revenues that would be coming from that would be going to the Edgewater, so pick your poison, but I'd rather get some of that money into the school budgets.
With that, they have no more discussion and adjourn. Read more!
Saturday, April 3, 2010
This Side of Town, the TV Version
Well, I survived my first taping, learned a lot, got over my nervousnesss and am thinking about continuing, but now its time for you to be the judge - just cut me a little slack, cuz it is, after all, my first show! There's also a second show I'll be on this week about blogging. Here's how you can check it out!
MY PILOT SHOW
Show: This Side of Town
Guests: I talk with School Board President Arlene Silveira about the school board budget challenge, Alders Mike Verveer and Marsha Rummel about the Downtown Library and Eddgewater Hotel and County Board Chair Scott McDonell about challenges facing the county (budget!), Tuesday's elections and RTA.
Schedule:
SAT 4/3 1:00pm
MON 4/5 3:00am
MON 4/5 4:30pm
WED 4/7 11:30am
WED 4/7 9:00pm
SAT 4/10 5:00am
SAT 4/10 6:00pm
Charter subscribers, tune in to Channel 991 (digital) or Channel 95 (analog).
Not a Charter subscriber or don't have a TV? Tune in online at www.wyou.org and click on "Watch Now."
A BONUS SHOW
Show: Progressive Voices
Guests: Host Rick Richards talks to me, Kristin Czubkowski from the Capital Times and Jason Joyce from the Isthmus about blogging, the media and the future.
Schedule:
SAT 4/3 2:00pm
MON 4/5 4:00am
SAT 4/10 2:00pm
A SPECIAL CHALLENGE
If you like these shows, let us know by donating (see below). I am considering continuing doing this on a regular basis, but only if it adds value, which I think it has potential to do, but I'd like to hear from you. If you donate and mention "This Side of Town" or as people have been calling it "Brenda's Blog Show" I'll know its worth continuing. You see, because of funding issues, WYOU is struggling to stay on the air past the end of this year, and its time for the community to step up and help show it is important to the community. My show won't exist without WYOU and WYOU (where the W in WYOU now stands for Willy Street) won't exist without YOU.
Check out what Barbara Lawton tells Ech Vedder on Luciano's Willy St TV show about WYOU (and enjoy a little Catfish Stevenson):
DONATIONS NEEDED
Because of cuts in public funding, WYOU needs your support. The move to our new location on Williamson Street is exciting and saves the station money, but is only one part of the solution. To continue providing locally produced programming to the television medium in Madison, as well as equipment for the station and technical education for the community, this spring fundraiser is critical.
Come see the new station location and make a housewarming donation in person. Donations can also be made by calling the station (608.258.9644) or by visiting the website and donating online at www.wyou.org. A membership donation is $50. Give more if you can. Any amount is welcome. Volunteers will be available to assist with your pledge and answer any questions you may have. Donations can be made via cash, check, Mastercard, Visa, American Express, Discover and Paypal.
REDISCOVER WYOU
Please show your support for WYOU. Throughout the week, I'll highlight a few other shows that would be good to watch . . .
Read more!
MY PILOT SHOW
Show: This Side of Town
Guests: I talk with School Board President Arlene Silveira about the school board budget challenge, Alders Mike Verveer and Marsha Rummel about the Downtown Library and Eddgewater Hotel and County Board Chair Scott McDonell about challenges facing the county (budget!), Tuesday's elections and RTA.
Schedule:
SAT 4/3 1:00pm
MON 4/5 3:00am
MON 4/5 4:30pm
WED 4/7 11:30am
WED 4/7 9:00pm
SAT 4/10 5:00am
SAT 4/10 6:00pm
Charter subscribers, tune in to Channel 991 (digital) or Channel 95 (analog).
Not a Charter subscriber or don't have a TV? Tune in online at www.wyou.org and click on "Watch Now."
A BONUS SHOW
Show: Progressive Voices
Guests: Host Rick Richards talks to me, Kristin Czubkowski from the Capital Times and Jason Joyce from the Isthmus about blogging, the media and the future.
Schedule:
SAT 4/3 2:00pm
MON 4/5 4:00am
SAT 4/10 2:00pm
A SPECIAL CHALLENGE
If you like these shows, let us know by donating (see below). I am considering continuing doing this on a regular basis, but only if it adds value, which I think it has potential to do, but I'd like to hear from you. If you donate and mention "This Side of Town" or as people have been calling it "Brenda's Blog Show" I'll know its worth continuing. You see, because of funding issues, WYOU is struggling to stay on the air past the end of this year, and its time for the community to step up and help show it is important to the community. My show won't exist without WYOU and WYOU (where the W in WYOU now stands for Willy Street) won't exist without YOU.
Check out what Barbara Lawton tells Ech Vedder on Luciano's Willy St TV show about WYOU (and enjoy a little Catfish Stevenson):
DONATIONS NEEDED
Because of cuts in public funding, WYOU needs your support. The move to our new location on Williamson Street is exciting and saves the station money, but is only one part of the solution. To continue providing locally produced programming to the television medium in Madison, as well as equipment for the station and technical education for the community, this spring fundraiser is critical.
Come see the new station location and make a housewarming donation in person. Donations can also be made by calling the station (608.258.9644) or by visiting the website and donating online at www.wyou.org. A membership donation is $50. Give more if you can. Any amount is welcome. Volunteers will be available to assist with your pledge and answer any questions you may have. Donations can be made via cash, check, Mastercard, Visa, American Express, Discover and Paypal.
REDISCOVER WYOU
Please show your support for WYOU. Throughout the week, I'll highlight a few other shows that would be good to watch . . .
Read more!
Monday, March 29, 2010
Brenda's Going to be on TV!
Eh, big deal, right? You've seen me on TV before, but not like this . . .
MY LITTLE PROJECT
I took a camera and editing class at WYOU and went out and did my first taping (thanks volunteers!) and started my first editing in the last two weeks. So, I hope to have my first videos done soon. However, I have another project I am working on as well. I'm going to host a pilot show that would be connected to my blog. My first guests will be School Board President Arlene Silveira talking about the School Board Budget and then city alders to talk about Edgewater, Library, RTA and more. I invited the county board chair who promised to come at a later date if I continue, the date and time didn't work for him. If it goes well, and I enjoy it and can find a crew, I may continue.
COME WATCH ME LIVE
My first taping will be Wednesday at 4:00. You're invited to come to the studio in their new location at 1202 Williamson St, Suite 101 (yes, the Social Justice Center) and check it out. In fact, they are having an open house all week this week and inviting people to come down, check out the new studio space and donate if you can. Here's the hours of their open house:
DONATE
While there are several bills doing well at the state level that could restore WYOUs funding if the City does the right thing, WYOU is in a race for its life. They need to find a way to keep the station going in a sustainable way. And while they are doing video services for hire and fundraising their little hearts out, they could really use your help. So, here's my pitch!
If you'd like to see me on television, asking the questions, not answering them, and see more video integrated with my blog, please donate to WYOU and note that it is for Brenda's blog show. You can donate here on-line, stop by the station during their open house, or pledge this week or next week when my show will air. The phone number is 258-9644. I don't have the exact time yet of when my show will air, but I'll let you know when I do.
Remember, if you donate, mention my blog. If I get enough donations, I'll kick it up a notch with my reporting and change my "maybe" on doing a tv show to "definitely"!
Read more!
MY LITTLE PROJECT
I took a camera and editing class at WYOU and went out and did my first taping (thanks volunteers!) and started my first editing in the last two weeks. So, I hope to have my first videos done soon. However, I have another project I am working on as well. I'm going to host a pilot show that would be connected to my blog. My first guests will be School Board President Arlene Silveira talking about the School Board Budget and then city alders to talk about Edgewater, Library, RTA and more. I invited the county board chair who promised to come at a later date if I continue, the date and time didn't work for him. If it goes well, and I enjoy it and can find a crew, I may continue.
COME WATCH ME LIVE
My first taping will be Wednesday at 4:00. You're invited to come to the studio in their new location at 1202 Williamson St, Suite 101 (yes, the Social Justice Center) and check it out. In fact, they are having an open house all week this week and inviting people to come down, check out the new studio space and donate if you can. Here's the hours of their open house:
Sunday, March 28 1pm – 5pmI was there last night for their open house and it was hopping! They were even letting people volunteer to run the cameras, so if you want to give it a try, they might let you!
Monday, March 29 5pm – 8pm
Tuesday, March 30 5pm – 8pm
Wednesday, March 31 5pm – 8pm
Thursday, April 1 5pm – 8pm
Friday, April 2 5pm – 9pm
DONATE
While there are several bills doing well at the state level that could restore WYOUs funding if the City does the right thing, WYOU is in a race for its life. They need to find a way to keep the station going in a sustainable way. And while they are doing video services for hire and fundraising their little hearts out, they could really use your help. So, here's my pitch!
If you'd like to see me on television, asking the questions, not answering them, and see more video integrated with my blog, please donate to WYOU and note that it is for Brenda's blog show. You can donate here on-line, stop by the station during their open house, or pledge this week or next week when my show will air. The phone number is 258-9644. I don't have the exact time yet of when my show will air, but I'll let you know when I do.
Remember, if you donate, mention my blog. If I get enough donations, I'll kick it up a notch with my reporting and change my "maybe" on doing a tv show to "definitely"!
Read more!
Tuesday, March 9, 2010
Recap of School Board Discussion on Edgewater TIF
I don't think I've ever watched an entire school board meeting. It was . . . different. I'd say the most awkward part of the meeting is where they discussed what types of information requests were appropriate and what was not. The Superintendent wanted to be able to deny requests for information that were too time consuming in consultation with the Board President. Seriously. That didn't fly. They preferred for it to be discussed with the requester at the time of the request. It was a running theme throughout the meeting with complaints about last minute information dumps on Monday before their meeting, lack of information and concerns about getting complete budget information. But I digress . . .
TIF COORDINATOR
Prior to the meeting, I asked Joe Gromacki, the TIF Coordinator for the City of Madison if he was going to attend the meeting. He said no, he was not. I asked why, he said he didn't have a revised application from Hammes and he doesn't know what the boundaries of the district are going to be, so there was nothing to talk about. He then proceeded to talk about the misinformation that was out there about the TIF and things that were being said by school board members that were inaccurate. I pointed out, that perhaps, that would be a reason to attend. That didn't fly either . . . which frustrated me as I explained how people needed more information and how they were arriving at the numbers they were using. He explained why they were wrong. It seems that we all were not served well by the lack of that discussion happening.
DISCUSSION
Ed Hughes explained during his City-School Board Liaison report that at the City's request, on April 7th, the next meeting, they will be discussing TIF and TID policy.
They also discussed it under the Legislative Liaison Reprt. Maya Cole chaired this portion of the meeting. Arlene Silveira and Dan Nerad clarified that they are just having a general discussion, there is no defined proposal yet, but they are going to begin to discuss and share their concerns.
Beth Moss says that wants to avoid what happened last time a TIF district came to us - I don’t want to have to go through that again.[There was no further explanation of what happened last time.]
Silveira explains she asked for it to be on the agenda as did Lucy Mathiak separately, she says there has been lots of discussion and much is around whether or not TIF could better benefit the school district. She requested it be on the agenda when it appeared they City was beginning to fast track the process. They were supposed to go to Board of Estimates last week, but that was rescheduled. As it is moving through the process she felt it was in the school board's best interest to have general decision even if they had nothing to direct Mathiak to do since they have no proposal yet. She wants to see how it impacts the school district and what we could do before a lot of the voting came down to get their message out there, she says they can't just depend upon Mathiak. If we agree with her, we could have a stronger voice, if not, now is the time to express their opinion.
Hughes says that has a question for Mathiak. He asks if when the extension of the downtown TID to spiff up the square that they authorized her to vote against, did she vote against it and was she the only one?
Mathiak says she was, but she is not sure what will happen with this one. She was the only one to vote against the expansion [Mathiak is one of 5 votes on the TIF Joint Review Board. The other members are from the other taxing entities of the County (Dave Worzala, County Treasuer), School Board (Lucy Mathiak) and MATC (Roger Price) and citizen representative Gary Poulson]and she thinks that is what got her started thinking about not general idea of TIF districts. She is concerned with the notion that when they expand a TIF district there are properties that should go back on our taxes rolls and they should get full taxes, instead go back off for 20 or 30 years. [Exactly how long a district stays open after the extension of a district is up to the state law limit (27 years?) and what the city spends. While the Joint Review board approves the "plan", what happens after that is determined by the city.]. She says that she was following the Edgewater, but it was not until TID 23 where there was some high value downtown development that they were deferring their full share of their property taxes out into the future. For the Edgewater this is problematical, they say it couldn’t be closed for 5 to 7 years, but she says what is keeping it open is $8M for Edgewater, if she is not mistaken. She says that at a time when they are desperately trying to find money for schools and get property tax relief for tax payers they are being hobbled by extending life of the TIF and not getting value of full taxes for the district. She says the reason to expand the district is that the Edgewater on its own cannot repay the loans if it was freestanding, to her that is problematical. Do they mortgage schools and our children’s future on downtown real estate that most of us won't be using, we can't afford it. That is the dilemma they find themselves in, and they are caught up in hype of city politics. She is concerned about their lack of understanding of TIF, she says when she did vote on 23 she didn’t know as much as she knows now. These are not minor proprieties, we would be getting our share of property taxes if they had not gone up in value, but they have gone way up and that has an impact on us.
Maya suggests that during this discussion if need to follow up with letter to community to reiterate these issues to the community, not sure community reads and understands it, a lot of issues with taxation and high value properties and especially during budget time, this is a resource we can’t take advantage of. This will come to a head with the budget. Last time they drafted a letter it turned out pretty well, given response of current delegation at state level, have to continue to advocate for the district Anyone want to work on that?
Hughes says if that is will of body, they should wait until the City-School Board Liaison Committee meeting to allow city to attempt to address our concerns.
Mathiak says that one other thing came out during the TID 23 vote was that the Capital Square and State Street properties don't pay like the school district does when there are improvements. The schools pay when they we get a stop light or round about or street improvements, we are assessed for half of the costs. It came out is that the Capital Square and State St. properties don’t have to pay anything, all these improvements are being done at no charge to property owners in the area. She says she will leave it to the alders to decide if that is just. She says they felt like the three stooges (Roger Price, Dave Worzala and her) because this is the first they had heard of this. She says she would like equal consideration and she would like to find alders that will find way to address that. Could we find a way to be exempt from assessment? She says they found this out at a noon meeting and that afternoon they reviewed a Shorewood TIF and they found out that there they don't charge the schools for street improvements.
Maya asks if they are going to wait on the letter until April 7th? Seems to be consensus. She says that anyone on the board or anyone watching this who wants to contact alder, they should request consideration to do the same, would appreciate it.
Arlene wants to make sure it is not too late . . . to wait til April 7th.
Mathiak and her decide they are having difficulty scheduling meetings and think it will be ok.
WRAP UP
And with that they were done. The question remains in my mind about how they will determine how TIF impacts the schools. Are they relying on the city to tell them that? Do they have their own staff that can crunch numbers for them? I'd love to know how long a TIF district should be open to optimize the schools investment, is there a certain value of buildings they need to have to make it worth while? Is there a size of a TIF district that become too big? etc. etc. etc. I could go on . . .
Read more!
TIF COORDINATOR
Prior to the meeting, I asked Joe Gromacki, the TIF Coordinator for the City of Madison if he was going to attend the meeting. He said no, he was not. I asked why, he said he didn't have a revised application from Hammes and he doesn't know what the boundaries of the district are going to be, so there was nothing to talk about. He then proceeded to talk about the misinformation that was out there about the TIF and things that were being said by school board members that were inaccurate. I pointed out, that perhaps, that would be a reason to attend. That didn't fly either . . . which frustrated me as I explained how people needed more information and how they were arriving at the numbers they were using. He explained why they were wrong. It seems that we all were not served well by the lack of that discussion happening.
DISCUSSION
Ed Hughes explained during his City-School Board Liaison report that at the City's request, on April 7th, the next meeting, they will be discussing TIF and TID policy.
They also discussed it under the Legislative Liaison Reprt. Maya Cole chaired this portion of the meeting. Arlene Silveira and Dan Nerad clarified that they are just having a general discussion, there is no defined proposal yet, but they are going to begin to discuss and share their concerns.
Beth Moss says that wants to avoid what happened last time a TIF district came to us - I don’t want to have to go through that again.[There was no further explanation of what happened last time.]
Silveira explains she asked for it to be on the agenda as did Lucy Mathiak separately, she says there has been lots of discussion and much is around whether or not TIF could better benefit the school district. She requested it be on the agenda when it appeared they City was beginning to fast track the process. They were supposed to go to Board of Estimates last week, but that was rescheduled. As it is moving through the process she felt it was in the school board's best interest to have general decision even if they had nothing to direct Mathiak to do since they have no proposal yet. She wants to see how it impacts the school district and what we could do before a lot of the voting came down to get their message out there, she says they can't just depend upon Mathiak. If we agree with her, we could have a stronger voice, if not, now is the time to express their opinion.
Hughes says that has a question for Mathiak. He asks if when the extension of the downtown TID to spiff up the square that they authorized her to vote against, did she vote against it and was she the only one?
Mathiak says she was, but she is not sure what will happen with this one. She was the only one to vote against the expansion [Mathiak is one of 5 votes on the TIF Joint Review Board. The other members are from the other taxing entities of the County (Dave Worzala, County Treasuer), School Board (Lucy Mathiak) and MATC (Roger Price) and citizen representative Gary Poulson]and she thinks that is what got her started thinking about not general idea of TIF districts. She is concerned with the notion that when they expand a TIF district there are properties that should go back on our taxes rolls and they should get full taxes, instead go back off for 20 or 30 years. [Exactly how long a district stays open after the extension of a district is up to the state law limit (27 years?) and what the city spends. While the Joint Review board approves the "plan", what happens after that is determined by the city.]. She says that she was following the Edgewater, but it was not until TID 23 where there was some high value downtown development that they were deferring their full share of their property taxes out into the future. For the Edgewater this is problematical, they say it couldn’t be closed for 5 to 7 years, but she says what is keeping it open is $8M for Edgewater, if she is not mistaken. She says that at a time when they are desperately trying to find money for schools and get property tax relief for tax payers they are being hobbled by extending life of the TIF and not getting value of full taxes for the district. She says the reason to expand the district is that the Edgewater on its own cannot repay the loans if it was freestanding, to her that is problematical. Do they mortgage schools and our children’s future on downtown real estate that most of us won't be using, we can't afford it. That is the dilemma they find themselves in, and they are caught up in hype of city politics. She is concerned about their lack of understanding of TIF, she says when she did vote on 23 she didn’t know as much as she knows now. These are not minor proprieties, we would be getting our share of property taxes if they had not gone up in value, but they have gone way up and that has an impact on us.
Maya suggests that during this discussion if need to follow up with letter to community to reiterate these issues to the community, not sure community reads and understands it, a lot of issues with taxation and high value properties and especially during budget time, this is a resource we can’t take advantage of. This will come to a head with the budget. Last time they drafted a letter it turned out pretty well, given response of current delegation at state level, have to continue to advocate for the district Anyone want to work on that?
Hughes says if that is will of body, they should wait until the City-School Board Liaison Committee meeting to allow city to attempt to address our concerns.
Mathiak says that one other thing came out during the TID 23 vote was that the Capital Square and State Street properties don't pay like the school district does when there are improvements. The schools pay when they we get a stop light or round about or street improvements, we are assessed for half of the costs. It came out is that the Capital Square and State St. properties don’t have to pay anything, all these improvements are being done at no charge to property owners in the area. She says she will leave it to the alders to decide if that is just. She says they felt like the three stooges (Roger Price, Dave Worzala and her) because this is the first they had heard of this. She says she would like equal consideration and she would like to find alders that will find way to address that. Could we find a way to be exempt from assessment? She says they found this out at a noon meeting and that afternoon they reviewed a Shorewood TIF and they found out that there they don't charge the schools for street improvements.
Maya asks if they are going to wait on the letter until April 7th? Seems to be consensus. She says that anyone on the board or anyone watching this who wants to contact alder, they should request consideration to do the same, would appreciate it.
Arlene wants to make sure it is not too late . . . to wait til April 7th.
Mathiak and her decide they are having difficulty scheduling meetings and think it will be ok.
WRAP UP
And with that they were done. The question remains in my mind about how they will determine how TIF impacts the schools. Are they relying on the city to tell them that? Do they have their own staff that can crunch numbers for them? I'd love to know how long a TIF district should be open to optimize the schools investment, is there a certain value of buildings they need to have to make it worth while? Is there a size of a TIF district that become too big? etc. etc. etc. I could go on . . .
Read more!
Sunday, March 7, 2010
How Will the Schools Fill their $30M Budget Problem?
They need to hear from you! You may have read some proposals about this in the State Journal (and here) or Channel 3 on Friday (yup, bad news Friday), including closing 3 elementary schools, but that is way down on tier four.
The proposed cuts are here.
School Board President Arlene Silveira send out emails saying there would be public hearings:
The proposed cuts are here.
School Board President Arlene Silveira send out emails saying there would be public hearings:
Last night the Board received recommendations from the Administration on cuts/efficiencies to address the budget situation we currently face. The MMSD must address for 2011-11 a $29.8 million budget difference.This could be a long painful process, but it starts here and it starts with you, feedback is important. I think we all know we need to keep our schools strong to keep our City strong, but how? Read more!
The Board had asked the Administration to provide options for addressing the $29.8 million budget difference. A summary of the recommendations can be found at:
http://drupal.madison.k12.wi.us/files/summary%20of%20all%20tiers_0.pdf
Please take some time to review these recommendations. Many have serious implications for the schools and the community. Detailed impact statements for each of these options can be found at:
http://drupal.madison.k12.wi.us/node/6365
$28.6 million of the budget difference can be filled with property taxes, if we so choose. If we were to tax to full authority, the property tax increase on the average $250,000 home would be an ADDITIONAL $312.50. For approximately every $7.2M we cut from our budget, the $312.50 number would decrease by approximately $77.00.
What is the right balance? We have 2 public hearings scheduled to hear input from the community:
March 22
6:00pm
UW Space Place at the Villager Mall
April 18
1:00pm
Warner Park Community Center
We also encourage feedback by email: board@madison.k12.wi.us This email will reach the entire Board and the Superintendent.
Please let me know if you have any comments or questions.
Arlene
Monday, February 22, 2010
Monday Morning Round Up
Bad news Friday Review along with other things that happened in the last three days . . . and some items of interest coming up this week.
BAD NEWS FRIDAY REVIEW
1. Protest Petition filed on Edgewater. Wisconsin State Journal covers it.
2. Ordinance on Waterfront Setback for Edgewater
3. Restraining Order partially granted, automated system for non-emergency calls goes into effect (seemingly smoothly), but 911 operators still answering City of Madison parking calls. Their editorial this morning was good, but it wasn't on line yet, chastising Mayor Dave Cieslewicz and County Executive Kathleen Falk for not working this out and making it a public and legal spat. I still think this whole flap has more to do with the $800,000 for the 22 channels instead of the $33,000 over parking calls, but in talking to several alders, no one is quite sure. Funny tho, the judge didn't buy the (pot. kettle. black) argument that the committee had to act before the system could be implemented.
THE WEEK AHEAD
City
County
School Board (Thanks TJ!)
EDGEWATER TIF BAD FOR SCHOOL DISTRICT
Lucy Mathiak weighs in on her blog. Her opinion is particularly important because she sits on the Joint Board of Review that will eventually need to approve the expansion of the TIF district - remember, the Edgewater isn't currently in a TIF district. Another major step that needs to occur before this whole thing can happen.
HAS THE SCHOOL BUDGET REALLY GOTTEN THAT BAD?
While promoting the Social Justice Center swap of office equipment, one East High School teacher contacted me to find out if our desks were still available, because they have no money to buy new ones and they were hoping some of ours might be better than theirs. That's bad when low end non-profit office furniture is better than we have in the schools!
SCHOOL BOARD FORUM
How'd it go? Check out the Wisconsin State Journal.
THE COUNCIL HAS TO PAY MORE ATTENTION TO UNION CONTRACTS
Mostly, they're told to stay out, but when things like this happen, its time for some council oversight. Mostly, the union contracts come to the council as a done deal and they are told that its a product of careful negotiation and they can't get involved. I agree with the Dave Zweifel, you can't blame the drivers, but I do think we can blame the hiring freeze and the council lack of oversight. Don't get me wrong, it's not easy, I tried a bit, but something still has to change in the system.
RENT FRAUD
This is off a friend of a friends facebook page, but something to look out for . . .
SIGH
Seriously?
County, county, county, not city!
CHANNEL 27 NOTICES WYOU FUNDING PROBLEMS
A short, short story, but a story nonetheless.
SCOTT MCDONELL TAKES ON THE CHAMBER ON SLY
Funneling corporate cash to republican candidates . . . McDonell points out that the Chamber hasn't had any issues before the county board, except the RTA which they supported. Sly and McDonell are pretty harsh on the Chamber and their corporate money, you might want to take a listen.
IT'S HARD TO BE A MAJOR CORPORATION
Says Emily Mills. She looks at AT&Ts latest antics.
WHAT WOULD JESUS DO IN LABOR NEGOTIATIONS?
The title was just quirky enough to catch my attention and ICWJ does good work.
RTA AGENDA
This is all over the listserves, but I still don't know where you would look to find it.
CITY LOOKING FOR LIFEGUARDS AND POOL ATTENDANTS FOR THIS SUMMER
NEW MURAL AT CENTRO
COMMUNICATION WITH MMSD
Wanna communicate about communications, then this is for you! Article here.
MAD SKILZ
FUNDRIASER FOR DANE COUNTY TIMEBANK
WILLY ST ROAD CONSTRUCTION OFFICALLY DELAYED
LOCAL PUBLIC FINANCING OF CAMPAIGNS
On Thursday 2/25, 9 am, room 328 Northwest of the State Capital, the Assembly Elections and Campaign Reform Committee will hold an executive session on AB 619, which authorizes local units of government to write their own campaign finance laws, as well as two other elections-related bills. See below for more information.
BAD NEWS FRIDAY REVIEW
1. Protest Petition filed on Edgewater. Wisconsin State Journal covers it.
2. Ordinance on Waterfront Setback for Edgewater
3. Restraining Order partially granted, automated system for non-emergency calls goes into effect (seemingly smoothly), but 911 operators still answering City of Madison parking calls. Their editorial this morning was good, but it wasn't on line yet, chastising Mayor Dave Cieslewicz and County Executive Kathleen Falk for not working this out and making it a public and legal spat. I still think this whole flap has more to do with the $800,000 for the 22 channels instead of the $33,000 over parking calls, but in talking to several alders, no one is quite sure. Funny tho, the judge didn't buy the (pot. kettle. black) argument that the committee had to act before the system could be implemented.
THE WEEK AHEAD
City
County
School Board (Thanks TJ!)
EDGEWATER TIF BAD FOR SCHOOL DISTRICT
Lucy Mathiak weighs in on her blog. Her opinion is particularly important because she sits on the Joint Board of Review that will eventually need to approve the expansion of the TIF district - remember, the Edgewater isn't currently in a TIF district. Another major step that needs to occur before this whole thing can happen.
HAS THE SCHOOL BUDGET REALLY GOTTEN THAT BAD?
While promoting the Social Justice Center swap of office equipment, one East High School teacher contacted me to find out if our desks were still available, because they have no money to buy new ones and they were hoping some of ours might be better than theirs. That's bad when low end non-profit office furniture is better than we have in the schools!
SCHOOL BOARD FORUM
How'd it go? Check out the Wisconsin State Journal.
THE COUNCIL HAS TO PAY MORE ATTENTION TO UNION CONTRACTS
Mostly, they're told to stay out, but when things like this happen, its time for some council oversight. Mostly, the union contracts come to the council as a done deal and they are told that its a product of careful negotiation and they can't get involved. I agree with the Dave Zweifel, you can't blame the drivers, but I do think we can blame the hiring freeze and the council lack of oversight. Don't get me wrong, it's not easy, I tried a bit, but something still has to change in the system.
RENT FRAUD
This is off a friend of a friends facebook page, but something to look out for . . .
A woman fraudulently rented us a house..cooked up a huge story pretending she was helping her fictitious mother rent the house. Her boyfriend's Grandma owns the house. It's not up for rent and she doesn't have the authority to rent it out. She had us sign a lease with her "mother's name on it and write out check to her. This woman has many different aliases. she lied about who she is. She spent our $ of course..I told her I'm gonna sue Grandma (Grandma is aware of this matter and has done little about it) if she doesn't fork it over.I never used to hear about this, but this is the 2nd or 3rd time in the last year or so. I guess its a sign of the times and how desperate people have become. The police, of course, said "that's a civil matter" and didn't do anything. Really?
The funniest part is she was trying to hold me the terms of her fake lease and she had 30 days to return it..I told her to f*ck herself and she has one week to return it. Supposedly she has a $100.00 money order in the mail. The rest is suppose to come next week. We'll see.
SIGH
Seriously?
CHANNEL 27 NOTICES WYOU FUNDING PROBLEMS
A short, short story, but a story nonetheless.
SCOTT MCDONELL TAKES ON THE CHAMBER ON SLY
Funneling corporate cash to republican candidates . . . McDonell points out that the Chamber hasn't had any issues before the county board, except the RTA which they supported. Sly and McDonell are pretty harsh on the Chamber and their corporate money, you might want to take a listen.
IT'S HARD TO BE A MAJOR CORPORATION
Says Emily Mills. She looks at AT&Ts latest antics.
WHAT WOULD JESUS DO IN LABOR NEGOTIATIONS?
The title was just quirky enough to catch my attention and ICWJ does good work.
RTA AGENDA
This is all over the listserves, but I still don't know where you would look to find it.
For those interested in what's up with the RTA, the first board meeting will be on March 4 at 4:30 PM in room 315 of the City-County Bldg.
The agenda looks pretty straight forward, maybe even bland, but if you are interested in seeing who's who an what's what, you might want to stop by:
1. Welcome and introductions
2. Election of officers
3. Resolution requiring a referendum to establish a sales tax
4. Discussion of the following items concerning the organization and operation of the Dane County Regional Transit Authority:
a. Designation of Dane County Clerk to notice agendas and serve as initial repository of public records
b. Creation of Possible Committees
c. Setting Meeting Schedule and Meeting Locations
5. Adjournment
CITY LOOKING FOR LIFEGUARDS AND POOL ATTENDANTS FOR THIS SUMMER
Employment Opportunity: LIFEGUARD 1 (HOURLY)
Agency: Parks Division
Category: IMMEDIATE HOURLY RECRUITMENTS
Salary: $12.19 per hour
Date Posted: 2/19/2010
Application Deadline: Ongoing Residency: No City of Madison Residency is Required for this Position.
Job Announcement Details: http://www.cityofmadison.com/employment/employmentListingDetails.cfm?Id=450
Employment Opportunity: POOL ATTENDANT (HOURLY)
Agency: Parks Division
Category: IMMEDIATE HOURLY RECRUITMENTS
Salary: $11.62 per hour
Date Posted: 2/19/2010
Application Deadline: 3/19/2010
Residency: No City of Madison Residency is Required for this Position.
Job Announcement Details
NEW MURAL AT CENTRO
Friday March 5, new community murals will be dedicated at Centro Hispano, 810 W Badger Road.
The Williamson Street Art Center, in partnership with Centro Hispano and the Overture Center for the Performing Arts, is celebrating the creation of a series of murals during a 2-year artist-in-residency program under the direction of Sharon Kilfoy. Hundreds of children, youth and adults have participated in the transformation of Centro Hispano where murals including “Home Away from Home” (“Mi Casa Es Su Casa”) and “Heroes of the Hispanic World” educate community members while offering a welcome respite to all.
Join us for a community celebration featuring the musical group Sones de Mexico from Chicago who will offer music workshops and a FANDANGO (a celebration that is part performance, part jam session, and part poetry slam.)
- The evening’s festivities will begin at 5:30 p.m. with music workshops.
- The mural dedication will be at 7:00 pm, followed by the FANDANGO.
(The mural project has been supported by the American Girl’s Fund for Children, University of Wisconsin Educational Outreach and Partnership programs, and the Wisconsin Arts Board. Muchas gracias!)
COMMUNICATION WITH MMSD
Wanna communicate about communications, then this is for you! Article here.
More information is at http://drupal.madison.k12.wi.us/kinder
Weigh in on district communications
Everyone is welcome to attend and give input about Madison School District communications at a Community Engagement Session scheduled for:
Monday, February 22 6:00 – 7:30 p.m.
Marquette/O’Keeffe Schools’ Cafeteria, 1501 Jenifer St.
The session is a step in the development of a communications plan aimed at ways to focus on the positives of the MMSD school experience and to publicize the benefits of graduating from the MMSD.
MAD SKILZ
Can you teach others to garden, sew, keep chickens or some other practical skill? Interested in helping with the re-skilling of our community and the re-localization of production? Earn extra income as an instructor with the Heritage Skills Institute!and
The Heritage Skills Institute is Madison's new center for teaching and learning about sustainable living skills. Committed to accelerating the transition to a low-carbon, low-energy future, HSI seeks to harness the wisdom and experience of the community to create the changes we seek. We are recruiting instructors to lead "mini-courses" on a wide range of relevant topics.
Change is coming and we all need to learn new ways of living. By teaching each other basic practical skills, we build resilience in our communities that can help sustain us in an uncertain future. Share your special knowledge, help your community and make a little money -- what could be better than that?
The first round of workshops is planned for Spring 2010. Have an idea for a simple course or workshop on a sustainable living skill? Do you already have a program and need more students? Let's work together to build our shared capacity to educate our ourselves and create a more resilient community!
Send comments, inquiries, proposals for courses, etc. to jwmingle@tds.net or leave a message at 332-1493. Thanks in advance for your interest and support.
Yes, we already have a program and need more students! Fitchburg Fields offers hands-on workshops in organic gardening techniques, (including 2 workshops on Permaculture!), food preservation (canning, pressure canning, freezing, drying, jam-making, pickling), and cooking healthy meals on a budget.
Our gardening workshops are held either at Focuscorp, 3201 Latham Dr., Madison, or at our garden at the corner of Lacy Rd. and Fahey Glen in Fitchburg. The garden is easily accessible by bike trail from Madison. Our kitchen workshops will be held at the Christ Memorial Lutheran Church, 2833 Raritan Rd. in Fitchburg, the Oregon High School Home Ec room, and possibly we'll have some in Madison as well.
All of our workshops are reasonably priced, and we have partial scholarships available for people who qualify (based on percentages of official poverty levels), for as long as our scholarship fund lasts. (You are also welcome to make a tax deductible donation to our scholarship fund.)
Please look over our offerings below and let us know if you want to register! The mini hoophouse workshop is already full, but with enough interest we'll do a second one. If you can't read this, go to www.madison.com/communities/ff and click on events.
FUNDRIASER FOR DANE COUNTY TIMEBANK
Sunday, Feb 28, 2010
8:00 pm-1:00 am
High Noon Saloon, 701 E. Washington
Ages 21+ (sorry)
Suggested donation: $20 or 4 Time Dollars - but we're flexible!
Lots of talented TimeBank members will perform for your listening enjoyment, plus we'll hear from them and others about how they use TimeBanking to help develop and promote their art.
Featuring:
Kathleen King
Carell Casey
Beat Road Blues
Art Paul Schlosser
Stephanie Rearick
The Rohnellaros (featuring Cat Capellaro and Andrew Rohn of VO5 and Walmartopia)
Bob Westfall Band
The Catalog Babies
Ladyscissors
MC Johnnie of Koool Karaoke
WILLY ST ROAD CONSTRUCTION OFFICALLY DELAYED
Our alder Marsha Rummel received word yesterday that the DNR has signed off on the delay of the lead pipe abatement deadline. This makes the Willy St. resurfacing/reconstruction officially delayed until 2011.
Thanks Marsha!
Scott
Scott B. Thornton
President, Marquette Neighborhood Association
www.marquette-neighborhood.org
LOCAL PUBLIC FINANCING OF CAMPAIGNS
On Thursday 2/25, 9 am, room 328 Northwest of the State Capital, the Assembly Elections and Campaign Reform Committee will hold an executive session on AB 619, which authorizes local units of government to write their own campaign finance laws, as well as two other elections-related bills. See below for more information.
Assembly Bill 619Read more!
Relating to: county, city, town, and village authority to create local elections boards and to regulate the financing of campaigns for county, city, town, and village offices; duties of municipal and county boards of election commissioners; and granting rule-making authority.
By Representatives Pocan, Smith, Berceau, Hebl, Milroy, Parisi, Pope-Roberts, A. Williams and Zepnick; cosponsored by Senators Risser, Lehman, Miller and Sullivan.
Monday, November 30, 2009
The (School Board) Week Ahead . . .
Kinda . . . a little . . .
I thought this sounded interesting:
Pocan and Miller will speak Monday 11/30 - Agenda of the Madison School Board for 11/30 includes:
Discussion with State Joint Finance Committee Co-Chairs regarding K-12 Funding in Wisconsin and the Impact of the State Budget on School District Finances.
The meeting is at 5:00 PM in room 103 of the Doyle Building. Read more!
I thought this sounded interesting:
Pocan and Miller will speak Monday 11/30 - Agenda of the Madison School Board for 11/30 includes:
Discussion with State Joint Finance Committee Co-Chairs regarding K-12 Funding in Wisconsin and the Impact of the State Budget on School District Finances.
The meeting is at 5:00 PM in room 103 of the Doyle Building. Read more!
Thursday, August 27, 2009
Blaska Out of Touch?
So, I went to the meeting about the "code of conduct" on the SW side expecting people to rail against "those people" on Section 8 and who wear baggy pants, but found something quite different. There ended up being very little talk about what the code of conduct actually said, except some concerns. The one person who was slightly offnsive was shut down immediately, perhaps making it so that others were discouraged from speaking up. Here's the details [with comments] and I bolded some interesting statements. There were about 200 people who attended and about 10 people of color.
INTTRODUCTIONS
Don Severson from the Dane County Council of Public Affairs did a brief introduction, talked about the groups involved and talked about the ground rules. [If you are interested, you might want them join them in "fighting back" against Obama's health care proposal at the town hall meeting they are supporting. In case you want to know more, they also endorsed Nancy Mistele.]
PURPOSE OF THE FORUM
Tom McKenna explained how this meeting came about. Says for 15 months people participated in the South West steering committee who created a neighborhood plan [I'd put in a link here, but the city's website isn't behaving at the moment.] for the area that was accepted by the Common Council. The plan addressed issues of the neighborhood. Major goals were to make changes to enhance the neighborhood and strengthen neighborhoods and he talks about 4 priority areas in the plan. He says the Meadowood community center is a result of the plan and a library is next. He says that the next priorities are to have a neighborhood network to disseminate information and establish a coalition of neighborhood associations. He talks about the press release from mayor [I'd put in a link here but the city website isn't behaving.] saying that it is not work of city alone to solve the neighborhood problems, and that he can't be successful without neighborhood leaders. He says that 6 weeks ago a couple of groups got together to say we need to address the mayor’s challenge. After being on steering committee, he took it upon himself to go to the city’s website and got info on all the neighborhood associations in the area and sent an email to presidents. They have held 2 meetings so far and he thanks people for joining them. Wants to join with Communities and Family's United to have one voice to talk to the government about their needs.
RESIDENTS BILL OF RIGHTS AND CODE OF CONDUCT
David Glomp spoke next. He said he wants to make the neighborhood a better place to live. He will talk about the Resident's Bill of Rights and Code of Conduct. He says that we all live by laws and rules and they protect our individual liberties. He says that the residents bill of rights is similar to the United States and State Constitution. He says that members of neighborhoods need to have enumerated the kinds of quality of life they want for their neighborhoods. They repeatedly said the documents were developed with all citizens and people in mind – honoring protected classes (race, religion, ethnicity) and they want to have dignity and respect for everyone. He says that most of the rights are self explanatory. Talks about the government agencies that can help. He calls the document should be called the Resident's Great Expectations for the Good Quality of Life for All of Us. Some of the things he highlights from the agreement are:
- He says he wants the police to enforce the laws on the books, don’t need more laws. He just wants to assure that the ones on the books will be enforced.
- They also want to continue some laws – particularly the chronic nuisance ordinance [Sorry, site still down, so no link]. He says that two years ago it was brought up that is was difficult for landlords to deal with some of their residents and that is ordinance was a result. He says this will sunset this fall, and that they need this to enforce against bad landlords and in some cases bad residents. [That was an interesting change of wording from one sentence to the next. Not clear if he thinks the ordinance is for bad landlords or bad tenants.]
- Wants more information shared with the neighbors from the police.Wants to know what is going on in their neighborhood. That way they will feel safer.
- Neighborhood alliance will help agencies by being the eyes and ears in the neighborhoods. He notes that they added 30 officers in the last year, but only accounted for 5 new round the clock officers – takes 6 officers to staff a beat – so only 5 new full time positions.
- Need to be prepared to step up and address inappropriate behavior – not suggesting vigilantism – just vigilance.
– They want to partner with police, schools and PTOs to make sure people know these rules apply to everyone 24/7 for adults and youth.
- If we need new laws or ordinances or rules they expect elected leaders to make it happen. But they think there are enough laws.
- Wants the rules to be uniform so kids can’t say they don’t know the rules if the rules are the same in school and out. He wants people to think about the code as 10 commandments.
- He wants people to think of sharing the code of behavior with anyone behaving badly, explain how behavior is inappropriate – need to suggest better way, need to be conversational not confrontational. Not afraid to address those behaving badly. Protect the rights of citizens and neighborhoods. It can be done in a respectful and dignified way. Maybe all you say to someone that their action are bothersome and ask them to stop and make alternative suggestions.
-In a public place, he hopes other neighbors will step up and stand with you to address bad behaviors.
- Wants neighborhood associations to utilize the neighborhood watch groups in existence to inform neighbors of activities that have been bothersome, need good two way communication between police and coordinators. Need to have a dialog.
He says we can step up to the plate and be part of the solution. Don’t want to hide behind our curtains in our homes. Use bill of rights and conduct as starting point. Not all of these things raise to the level of a crime. We need to be the eyes and ears of the police. If behavioral issues or quality of life issues we need t talk to people creating the problem
SCHOOLS ROLES AND STRATEGIES
Don Severeson says schools are center of our neighborhoods. He points out the 12 schools involved with the neighborhoods. Explains some schools are not in the neighborhood, but kids from the neighborhood go to them. When talking about having residents involved, they need to be all inclusive regardless of where they go to school. Schools are center of neighborhoods and what goes on. What goes on in the schools affects students, staff and neighbors. He notes that across the school district 76% of households do not have children in the school. A lot of us residents that don’t have kids in the schools but still are committed to relationship with the schools. Some might have grandchildren in the school. We need to understand the expectations in the schools and some of us are going to have to learn some different skills and attitudes. We need to relate better and reach out. We need to establish relationships with staff, teachers, parents and kids. Last few years all the schools have adopted and are implementing policies. One policy is Above the Line, Below the Line and the Bottom Line. He notes there are some differences in how the schools implement it. Student and staff and parent handbooks. [He actually called them hymnals. twice. I guess we're carrying out the religious them this week] The second policy is Positive Behavior Initiative [you need to sign in to see it.]. There are ways which staff and parents have been trained and students are engaged in learning about positive behavior. Suggests parents and the rest of us residents need to be more aware about those expectations are. So, when kids leave the school, it isn’t a different world they go into. Code of conduct and behavior is very closely aligned with those policies of the schools and school districts. They shouldn’t be any surprises. He lists some expections or things that nee to happen.
- They need to further identify or discuss what Dave started in terms of the aims of the code of conduct
- They need to make sure the public is aware of the expectations.
- The need to expect school to uniformly enforce and use restorative justice. He says people need to learn what "restorative justice" means.
- Expect parents to support school efforts at home and residents respect throughout the community. Being a parent is the only job left totally to on the job training.
- Wants schools to proactively seek collaboration with neighborhood associations and community groups to help develop the skills. Some of that is happening and there needs to be more and thinks it can be strengthened. Encourages schools to come out to the neighborhoods. He says the schools don’t get many volunteers. We need to reach out and ask specifically.
- Needs to create a communications network among all the stakeholders to encourage positive behavior. Alot going on and a lot is positive and need to build on that and identify shortcomings and collaboratively work together to build it and take positive steps.
HOUSING STRATEGIES
Tom McKenna – Talks about housing in the neighborhood. Wants to come up with suggestions in the housing area. He says it is easy for a tenant to be a good tenant and outlines what a good tenant needs to do:
- Know lease and follow it
- Pay rent on time
- Keep apartment clean
- Tell landlords about repairs
- Be a good neighbor
- Keep copies of all correspondence.
A good landlord has to:
- Keep property in good shape
- Screen tenants
He points out three people he thinks are good landlords [including Brent Milfort who is open ignoring Dane County Fair Housing Laws and proud of it.] The city through Building Inspection has a great 10 page brochure that spells out responsibilities of landlords and tenants. A couple things in there that are spelled out. He says if you don’t know who landlord is 32.08 requires that info of the contact person be included in the lease. MGO 27.04 requires in a 3 unit or more there must be a note in the hallway of who to contact. He talks about landlord registration and he says that if we know who they are because the information is hung in the hallway and we have police calls to an address and that is how you know if someone is a bad landlord then you can run the addresses of the owners of the property and contact them. [Sounds simple right, someone can just go to every rental property and collect that information out the the hallway of all the buildings, because you see those notices all the time, right? Yes, I'm being sarcastic]. He says one property had 123 calls to one address. Not all are bad requests. He says that we know who the bad landlords are already. We all have to “go after” the bad landlords – that is one for the reasons we have the chronic nuisance. Noise, drugs, criminal activities and code violations can be addressed. Wants to support chronic nuisance ordinance, lets property owners know the city is serious. He says if tenants are having problems they should call the landlord and if the landlord doesn't fix the problem, call the Building Inspector, Health Department or Police Department. [Great advice! Should we just start having tenants call the police when they have tenant/landlord problems? Do they have time for thousands of calls per year?] He talks about how the neighborhood association should use neighborhood watch, should send landlord a notice when they are violating code of conduct and say "we’re giving you 5 days" and then we’re going to file complaints. Easy to complain about the tenants or bad landlords, but we all have to work together. We need to help the people who need the help because the properties are not being taken care of and the people in the properties need to take care of them too.
QUESTIONS AND ANSWERS
Severson review the rules:
- One person can speak at a time
- 2 minutes per resident for questions/comments
- Residents to identify self by name, neighborhood and affiliation (if any)
- Address question/statement to the chair and for which presenter
[I gotta say, it was much more respectful and better run that the Edgewater meeting where the alder was shouting down and cutting off people trying to speak.]
Severson asks Jim Monroe to speak first. He declines and says he wants to listen until he knows what he is commenting about. [He is the one organizing the event on Saturday. Sounded like he was waiting to see how nasty it got before he was portrayed as supporting some of the questionable items.]
John from Orchard Ridge says that up until a few years ago we didn’t have these problems, the problems moved in the last 3 – 4 years and wants to move the problems out.
Severson says that has been attempted for several years and it’s just moving the problem around the city – we need to address the problems
John says that if city officials had the same problems in their neighborhoods something would be done. There are a few audible displays of support.
Glomp asks what the behavior is.
John says one of problem is speeding. The problems were not here 5 or 6 years ago but something changed the complexion of the neighborhood. Why can’t we put the problems someplace else. City officials don’t want to deal with it, if you put them in their neighborhood they’d do something about it.
Severson said this should be referred for further discussion. Needs to be dealt with directly.
Larry from Orchard Ridge says that he surveyed Orchard Ridge neighborhood about what they needed, encourage tenants to be part of the community even though renters/tenants don’t seem to want to be part of or feel comfortable being part of the neighborhood. As part of community building they want renters to get involved in neighborhood assoc so we can work together.
Woman who lives on Balsam. Didn't say her name because landlords might not rent to her if she wanted to move. She says the reason we have problems because so much development in the area and people moved out. Low interest rates helped people buy homes and now we have more rentals than tenants and landlords some of whom recently bought, can’t sell the properties, no one wants them and landlords need to look for renters who have money. She is on section 8, she is low income and disabled. She says that landlords will stack 2 or3 families in the units. Criminals have more money so they get rented to. One of the biggest mistakes people mistake is that people will recognize right and wrong cuz some have basic standards or ethics, some don’t know what to do. She says that when you approach people you need to be careful because some people just hear “you’re racist" or "you hate us".
Alissa from Meadowood. She lived in the neighborhood 23 years. She points out that the group already violated the first item in the code of conduct – treating people with dignity and respect. She points out the comments about the changing "complexion of the neighborhood". She says we need to be careful about how you choose your words. She points out that they were talking about people who behave differently needing to address their bad behavior. She says just because someone is different doesn’t mean they are bad. She says things are being things are being lumped together inappropriately. She says she moved there 23 years ago there was low income housing at the end of the block, people are people, people are different. She is a teacher, she says we have problems when people generalize and lump them together and not treat people with respect. Her question is about the bill of rights – who defines what is acceptable, normal behavior, who is establishing that list. She agrees about loud noises and understands that, but what about lawnmowers and leaf blowers before 10 on Sunday morning? She says she is serious about that and the room bursts into a round of applause.
Severson says that the definitions have to be determined by the residents. That will take involvement and participation. You will have the opportunity.
Someone asks what is the mechanism to determine what is acceptable behavior.
Severson says to work through SWANS (the 16 neighborhoods). and neighborhood groups and Families and Communities United (group planning Saturday's event), Dane County Council on Public Affairs. [I don't think this really answered the question, I left wondering what people were supposed to do if they were interested in being involved. I began to worry that the dog and pony show was all that was here and they didn't really want people to be involved.]
Glomp says that he encourages everyone to participate – code of conduct and bill of rights is a starting point, not all inclusive, might not agree with it all. We need rules or we have bedlam or anarchy. We need to work together and if we don’t like something we need to make it work for all of us. Important for neighborhood and citizens. When one person’s right sare violation they don’t want to live here. Wants everyone to stay and be happy. This isn’t about an age group or ethnicity, renter or homeowner, we’re all in this together. [At some point, after he said these things for the third or fourth time, I began to think that they "doth protest too much".]
Rich lives behind channel 3 for 5 or 6 years. He says his fortune cookie today said – if you want to have a good friend than be a good friend. He wants people to consider if they are being a good friend, that can make a big difference in how people teatr you. Being nice can go a long way. He says he likes being conversational not confrontational. It. goes a long way. He talks about the value of two neighbors talking over a fence. Wants to see groups working together, respecting different opinions. He suggestions that people should be connected to someone who you know is involved, you don’t have to do all the work, let them bring your opinion to the meeting. He wants them to respect diversity, he says it sounds simple but hard to do. He says someone driving down the road looking crazy might just be enjoying their favorite song.
Betsy from Greentree has been the Preident of the Toki PTO for 3 years. They have had forums and conversations with teachers and school staff and parents dealing with appropriate behavior in the school – didn’t take it as far as the neighborhood. What the district told us – the message was – appropriate behavior is in school code of conduct, but the real issue is whether what is in the code of conduct is being carried through the leaders in the schools. Would like school district to apply the code of conduct. Has examples and data about it not being done. She talks about being pushed up against lockers in the school and nothing done. Staff have been injured and nothing seems to be done and parents whose students who have been injured or crimes against students can’t find out if perpetrator has been disciplined. She says that the "25 bad landlords" or other things might sound good, but highly doubts that it can be done. Applauds the efforts, supports it and would have been involved at meeting one. Schools being involved need to look at leasedership and that they buy into it. She says they need to make sure the teachers are really trained in the Positive Behavior Initiative. [Someone sitting by me muttered, "where would the get the money to do that." Good point!]
Dave Keller – grew up in Orchard Ridge – he’s a landlord and agrees there are problem landlords and there are problem tenants and both have the same problem, lousy behavior. Brought his son, thought mayor would be here – this is part of what we do at my house, we involved the kids and show them what is right and wrong and doesn’t see that going on, no parental involvement with children. Would be wonderful if neighbors knew each other – doesn’t know neighbors today, did 10 years ago, hasn’t taken the outreach step – would solve a lot of problems, need to know who lives next door and across the street. – his house and neighborhoods house broken into in broad daylight and we didn’t know who should be coming and going.
Pat – Golden Oak lane 32 years. Likes the want a friend be a friend – she thinks of this in terms of bridges and walls, we have developed a thinly veiled us and them mentality and the "them" are having a big event at Elver park on Saturday, "us" should also show up. She says we need to be bridges. We can have a code of conduct but until we build bridges, they won’t mean much. Things that are created unilaterally won’t be accepted, let’s all go to Elver Park. Let’s talk to each other and be the community we want to be and then talk about the rules on how we want to live together. Once again, the room burst into applause.
Charles from Midvale Heights – Asks panel and people who did the bill of rights? Asks why it is the citizens not the city or police that set the rules. Who will define the neighborhood and what is the mechanism to set the rules?
Glomp says that he wants them to work with use and join the committee and we will work on those that you like or dislike – that is why we are here tonight. [Ok, what committee, when and where does it meet, who is on it?]
Jim Monroe, minister and resident on Valley Ridge Drive in the Elver Park area. He says we need the freedom to speak up. Watching what they are trying to do, he says he is part of "us and them" process, he says there should be no " us and them" just people. He's trying to help the kids. Inside our community is auction that we need, that is you. You need to let them [kids] know that you care – otherwise they won’t listen or hear – not just black kid, kids, not Hispanic kids, kids. Too many issues to try to address but we need to open our minds and want to stop the problem then we as adults and parents need to make a concerted effort to not let the kids kill or steal or rob, we need to let them know we care, not that we are scared. If you send message that you are afraid they don’t know what to do – more applause
Florenzo from Allied Drive. We need to talk about public safety but also good and moral public policy. Looked over the bill of rights and some of the problems we have are not the same, we don’t have houses, working with the southwest neighborhoods is a good thing, but we need to have a lot more people on the end that need to follow the rules need to help create the rules. This singles out a lot of people. People on probation and parole have been judged already – shouldn’t have to be judged twice. When people on probation and parole get out of jail and some are found innocent, in the pool of public opinion get judged twice. Working in community sine 1997, he worked with the neighborhood center before it was the boys and girls club. Will be working on the YWCA project. We need programs, not buildings, you don’t change people by giving them toys, need to change their thought process, need to give them something new to think about to create a new person. Willing to extend a hand and work with whoever, but want people in community to be included in the process of the rules they need to follow – more applause
REQUESTS FOR SUPPORT OF OVERALL PLANS AND STRATEGIES
Asked for comments from groups – it was awkward as no one wanted to speak up.
Someone asks about the mayor. No one from the Mayor's office attended.
A woman says that we need to change the mindset of the school board, can’t let the kids run the school – need to not send kids all over to Verona or to catholic school. If she did it over she would send kids to catholic school, but can’t afford Edgewood. [I don't think that was what this section was about.]
Robert Howard – 28 years in the neighborhood, children went to Orchard Ridge nursery school. He says he sees some school people here and feels bad that you folks may not know that they are here and part of this thing. He's a parent and works as a school social worker, commends the effort, good starting point and they certainly need some improvement and input from a range of people and the target folks, whomever they are, the them out there. I feel like a them, I certainly look like (he's black) the stereotype and feels like he is. He says lots of people say they're just kids and a lot of the behavior many not look so objectionable if they were kids that look like you. I wantched the movie a Time to Kill and heard the summation and those of you who have seen it know what he said.. Think of that and these are all kids and all want love and attention and support. When we have the diversity that we have and the changes in the last 30 years, and there is more understanding of that change and we don’t need to accept all of it but people need to understand the community they are building. He hopes to see people at Elver. If you want to make a difference in the lives of the kids you can – he has a long list of kids that could use the help and you don’t need to be afraid. Good neighborhood and it can be better – invite a kid or two to be on the body. Often comes and see few people of color and people come as they are able to come many feel it is difficult to come, but invites you to read the Madison Times, read the paper, advertise in the paper, if you want to make a difference. Come on out and get to know them, invite people of color to come. – applause.
Manny (Emanuel) Scarborough with the Elver Park Group. He asks how did we get here? Why are we here? What was the situation that caused us to be here? How long will you be here? Only meeting you will be at? What are the goals? Strategies to get us where we want to go? Those are the hard questions. Are we going to change, what do I have to do, what do I tell myself, how do we come together as a community to look at how we want to live and how what we want to do. This is not coming to one meeting, its climbing a mountain, put one foot in front of the other. If you want to be engaged, get together in small and large groups and make it a concentrated effort. He reminds people the world is changing . . . and kids don’t understand old people – applause
West District Police Captain Lengfeld – west district is busiest district, encouraging that this district is that there is so much involvement from the community and what the speakers have said is what the whole city should do. Need to get everyone to do. Landlord pacts, community groups working to solve the problems and it’s the only way to do it. Law enforcement is a short term solution and you all are working on long term solutions, thinks issues and concerns will be addresses. Need to continue to work together and only good things will come.
Sheriff Mahoney – grew up in the neighborhood. Married high school sweetheart who grew up in Meadowood, lives by west towne. Sheriff and police work closely, trying to collaborate in south west Madison. Law enforcement will do their part. But can’t solve it all, requires entire community , requires businesses, faith based communities and schools. Points out county board supervisors in the room (Ferrell, Hesselbein and others). Also alders (Solomon, Clear, Sanborn, King . . . no Thuy?) He says they will continue to work collaboratively. Points out Keller said parent involvement is required, can’t say that enough Anybody who is old enough to attend Memorial when Boomer was there, were made to run the hill. Takes involvement and mentors, many know kids in the school and we can be a mentor to the kids next door. Not a mother in this community that doesn’t care about their children. Robert made thoughtful comments. He’ll do his part, but want to work with all of you – some clapping.
School Board President Arlene Silveira – Public schools and education are different than other groups – we do not have the ability to say no to a child that walks though the doors – legally and morally obligated to help them, in Madison we also do it because we want to – they believe in all children, embrace the diversity – truly a positive when they are in a diverse class room – diversity defined in many ways. Embrace every child , even those at the Meadowood Community Center. There have been problems and issues and a strong relationship between positive school and community. These meetings are important. Introduces people in the room and says that that they are committed to working with neighborhoods - School Board Members Beth Moss, Marj Passman, Ed Hhughes & Maya Cole, 3 principals from Falk, Toki and Chavez, school adminstrators including Luis Yudice who is in charge of safety in the schools. Says Nerad sends his regrets, long standing commitment to be with another neighborhood tonight. Says a partnership is critical to making it work. Meeting with neighborhood associations, partnered with city on the Meadowood Community Center. Working on communications with neighborhood . Committed to continuing the dialog and look at other solutions, but need to involve the kids. Partnership is two ways and they need help as well. What do kids want, volunteer at the neighborhood center . . . .
[At this point I was interrupted by Blaska, who came to ask me if I wanted a quote for my blog. Um . . . . No.]
County Board Supervisor Ronn Ferrell wanted to thank the women doing the childcare for the event. He says he is listening, it’s a start, let’s keep it going, get involved we need a better city and this is how we start.
No alders were invited to come forward, unlike the police, sherriff, school board and county board folks.
With that, they wrapped it up and called it a night. Encouraged people to get and stay involved, but never really said how.
Luciano from WYOU taped the whole thing, might want to watch his show to see if for yourself.
Read more!
INTTRODUCTIONS
Don Severson from the Dane County Council of Public Affairs did a brief introduction, talked about the groups involved and talked about the ground rules. [If you are interested, you might want them join them in "fighting back" against Obama's health care proposal at the town hall meeting they are supporting. In case you want to know more, they also endorsed Nancy Mistele.]
PURPOSE OF THE FORUM
Tom McKenna explained how this meeting came about. Says for 15 months people participated in the South West steering committee who created a neighborhood plan [I'd put in a link here, but the city's website isn't behaving at the moment.] for the area that was accepted by the Common Council. The plan addressed issues of the neighborhood. Major goals were to make changes to enhance the neighborhood and strengthen neighborhoods and he talks about 4 priority areas in the plan. He says the Meadowood community center is a result of the plan and a library is next. He says that the next priorities are to have a neighborhood network to disseminate information and establish a coalition of neighborhood associations. He talks about the press release from mayor [I'd put in a link here but the city website isn't behaving.] saying that it is not work of city alone to solve the neighborhood problems, and that he can't be successful without neighborhood leaders. He says that 6 weeks ago a couple of groups got together to say we need to address the mayor’s challenge. After being on steering committee, he took it upon himself to go to the city’s website and got info on all the neighborhood associations in the area and sent an email to presidents. They have held 2 meetings so far and he thanks people for joining them. Wants to join with Communities and Family's United to have one voice to talk to the government about their needs.
RESIDENTS BILL OF RIGHTS AND CODE OF CONDUCT
David Glomp spoke next. He said he wants to make the neighborhood a better place to live. He will talk about the Resident's Bill of Rights and Code of Conduct. He says that we all live by laws and rules and they protect our individual liberties. He says that the residents bill of rights is similar to the United States and State Constitution. He says that members of neighborhoods need to have enumerated the kinds of quality of life they want for their neighborhoods. They repeatedly said the documents were developed with all citizens and people in mind – honoring protected classes (race, religion, ethnicity) and they want to have dignity and respect for everyone. He says that most of the rights are self explanatory. Talks about the government agencies that can help. He calls the document should be called the Resident's Great Expectations for the Good Quality of Life for All of Us. Some of the things he highlights from the agreement are:
- He says he wants the police to enforce the laws on the books, don’t need more laws. He just wants to assure that the ones on the books will be enforced.
- They also want to continue some laws – particularly the chronic nuisance ordinance [Sorry, site still down, so no link]. He says that two years ago it was brought up that is was difficult for landlords to deal with some of their residents and that is ordinance was a result. He says this will sunset this fall, and that they need this to enforce against bad landlords and in some cases bad residents. [That was an interesting change of wording from one sentence to the next. Not clear if he thinks the ordinance is for bad landlords or bad tenants.]
- Wants more information shared with the neighbors from the police.Wants to know what is going on in their neighborhood. That way they will feel safer.
- Neighborhood alliance will help agencies by being the eyes and ears in the neighborhoods. He notes that they added 30 officers in the last year, but only accounted for 5 new round the clock officers – takes 6 officers to staff a beat – so only 5 new full time positions.
- Need to be prepared to step up and address inappropriate behavior – not suggesting vigilantism – just vigilance.
– They want to partner with police, schools and PTOs to make sure people know these rules apply to everyone 24/7 for adults and youth.
- If we need new laws or ordinances or rules they expect elected leaders to make it happen. But they think there are enough laws.
- Wants the rules to be uniform so kids can’t say they don’t know the rules if the rules are the same in school and out. He wants people to think about the code as 10 commandments.
- He wants people to think of sharing the code of behavior with anyone behaving badly, explain how behavior is inappropriate – need to suggest better way, need to be conversational not confrontational. Not afraid to address those behaving badly. Protect the rights of citizens and neighborhoods. It can be done in a respectful and dignified way. Maybe all you say to someone that their action are bothersome and ask them to stop and make alternative suggestions.
-In a public place, he hopes other neighbors will step up and stand with you to address bad behaviors.
- Wants neighborhood associations to utilize the neighborhood watch groups in existence to inform neighbors of activities that have been bothersome, need good two way communication between police and coordinators. Need to have a dialog.
He says we can step up to the plate and be part of the solution. Don’t want to hide behind our curtains in our homes. Use bill of rights and conduct as starting point. Not all of these things raise to the level of a crime. We need to be the eyes and ears of the police. If behavioral issues or quality of life issues we need t talk to people creating the problem
SCHOOLS ROLES AND STRATEGIES
Don Severeson says schools are center of our neighborhoods. He points out the 12 schools involved with the neighborhoods. Explains some schools are not in the neighborhood, but kids from the neighborhood go to them. When talking about having residents involved, they need to be all inclusive regardless of where they go to school. Schools are center of neighborhoods and what goes on. What goes on in the schools affects students, staff and neighbors. He notes that across the school district 76% of households do not have children in the school. A lot of us residents that don’t have kids in the schools but still are committed to relationship with the schools. Some might have grandchildren in the school. We need to understand the expectations in the schools and some of us are going to have to learn some different skills and attitudes. We need to relate better and reach out. We need to establish relationships with staff, teachers, parents and kids. Last few years all the schools have adopted and are implementing policies. One policy is Above the Line, Below the Line and the Bottom Line. He notes there are some differences in how the schools implement it. Student and staff and parent handbooks. [He actually called them hymnals. twice. I guess we're carrying out the religious them this week] The second policy is Positive Behavior Initiative [you need to sign in to see it.]. There are ways which staff and parents have been trained and students are engaged in learning about positive behavior. Suggests parents and the rest of us residents need to be more aware about those expectations are. So, when kids leave the school, it isn’t a different world they go into. Code of conduct and behavior is very closely aligned with those policies of the schools and school districts. They shouldn’t be any surprises. He lists some expections or things that nee to happen.
- They need to further identify or discuss what Dave started in terms of the aims of the code of conduct
- They need to make sure the public is aware of the expectations.
- The need to expect school to uniformly enforce and use restorative justice. He says people need to learn what "restorative justice" means.
- Expect parents to support school efforts at home and residents respect throughout the community. Being a parent is the only job left totally to on the job training.
- Wants schools to proactively seek collaboration with neighborhood associations and community groups to help develop the skills. Some of that is happening and there needs to be more and thinks it can be strengthened. Encourages schools to come out to the neighborhoods. He says the schools don’t get many volunteers. We need to reach out and ask specifically.
- Needs to create a communications network among all the stakeholders to encourage positive behavior. Alot going on and a lot is positive and need to build on that and identify shortcomings and collaboratively work together to build it and take positive steps.
HOUSING STRATEGIES
Tom McKenna – Talks about housing in the neighborhood. Wants to come up with suggestions in the housing area. He says it is easy for a tenant to be a good tenant and outlines what a good tenant needs to do:
- Know lease and follow it
- Pay rent on time
- Keep apartment clean
- Tell landlords about repairs
- Be a good neighbor
- Keep copies of all correspondence.
A good landlord has to:
- Keep property in good shape
- Screen tenants
He points out three people he thinks are good landlords [including Brent Milfort who is open ignoring Dane County Fair Housing Laws and proud of it.] The city through Building Inspection has a great 10 page brochure that spells out responsibilities of landlords and tenants. A couple things in there that are spelled out. He says if you don’t know who landlord is 32.08 requires that info of the contact person be included in the lease. MGO 27.04 requires in a 3 unit or more there must be a note in the hallway of who to contact. He talks about landlord registration and he says that if we know who they are because the information is hung in the hallway and we have police calls to an address and that is how you know if someone is a bad landlord then you can run the addresses of the owners of the property and contact them. [Sounds simple right, someone can just go to every rental property and collect that information out the the hallway of all the buildings, because you see those notices all the time, right? Yes, I'm being sarcastic]. He says one property had 123 calls to one address. Not all are bad requests. He says that we know who the bad landlords are already. We all have to “go after” the bad landlords – that is one for the reasons we have the chronic nuisance. Noise, drugs, criminal activities and code violations can be addressed. Wants to support chronic nuisance ordinance, lets property owners know the city is serious. He says if tenants are having problems they should call the landlord and if the landlord doesn't fix the problem, call the Building Inspector, Health Department or Police Department. [Great advice! Should we just start having tenants call the police when they have tenant/landlord problems? Do they have time for thousands of calls per year?] He talks about how the neighborhood association should use neighborhood watch, should send landlord a notice when they are violating code of conduct and say "we’re giving you 5 days" and then we’re going to file complaints. Easy to complain about the tenants or bad landlords, but we all have to work together. We need to help the people who need the help because the properties are not being taken care of and the people in the properties need to take care of them too.
QUESTIONS AND ANSWERS
Severson review the rules:
- One person can speak at a time
- 2 minutes per resident for questions/comments
- Residents to identify self by name, neighborhood and affiliation (if any)
- Address question/statement to the chair and for which presenter
[I gotta say, it was much more respectful and better run that the Edgewater meeting where the alder was shouting down and cutting off people trying to speak.]
Severson asks Jim Monroe to speak first. He declines and says he wants to listen until he knows what he is commenting about. [He is the one organizing the event on Saturday. Sounded like he was waiting to see how nasty it got before he was portrayed as supporting some of the questionable items.]
John from Orchard Ridge says that up until a few years ago we didn’t have these problems, the problems moved in the last 3 – 4 years and wants to move the problems out.
Severson says that has been attempted for several years and it’s just moving the problem around the city – we need to address the problems
John says that if city officials had the same problems in their neighborhoods something would be done. There are a few audible displays of support.
Glomp asks what the behavior is.
John says one of problem is speeding. The problems were not here 5 or 6 years ago but something changed the complexion of the neighborhood. Why can’t we put the problems someplace else. City officials don’t want to deal with it, if you put them in their neighborhood they’d do something about it.
Severson said this should be referred for further discussion. Needs to be dealt with directly.
Larry from Orchard Ridge says that he surveyed Orchard Ridge neighborhood about what they needed, encourage tenants to be part of the community even though renters/tenants don’t seem to want to be part of or feel comfortable being part of the neighborhood. As part of community building they want renters to get involved in neighborhood assoc so we can work together.
Woman who lives on Balsam. Didn't say her name because landlords might not rent to her if she wanted to move. She says the reason we have problems because so much development in the area and people moved out. Low interest rates helped people buy homes and now we have more rentals than tenants and landlords some of whom recently bought, can’t sell the properties, no one wants them and landlords need to look for renters who have money. She is on section 8, she is low income and disabled. She says that landlords will stack 2 or3 families in the units. Criminals have more money so they get rented to. One of the biggest mistakes people mistake is that people will recognize right and wrong cuz some have basic standards or ethics, some don’t know what to do. She says that when you approach people you need to be careful because some people just hear “you’re racist" or "you hate us".
Alissa from Meadowood. She lived in the neighborhood 23 years. She points out that the group already violated the first item in the code of conduct – treating people with dignity and respect. She points out the comments about the changing "complexion of the neighborhood". She says we need to be careful about how you choose your words. She points out that they were talking about people who behave differently needing to address their bad behavior. She says just because someone is different doesn’t mean they are bad. She says things are being things are being lumped together inappropriately. She says she moved there 23 years ago there was low income housing at the end of the block, people are people, people are different. She is a teacher, she says we have problems when people generalize and lump them together and not treat people with respect. Her question is about the bill of rights – who defines what is acceptable, normal behavior, who is establishing that list. She agrees about loud noises and understands that, but what about lawnmowers and leaf blowers before 10 on Sunday morning? She says she is serious about that and the room bursts into a round of applause.
Severson says that the definitions have to be determined by the residents. That will take involvement and participation. You will have the opportunity.
Someone asks what is the mechanism to determine what is acceptable behavior.
Severson says to work through SWANS (the 16 neighborhoods). and neighborhood groups and Families and Communities United (group planning Saturday's event), Dane County Council on Public Affairs. [I don't think this really answered the question, I left wondering what people were supposed to do if they were interested in being involved. I began to worry that the dog and pony show was all that was here and they didn't really want people to be involved.]
Glomp says that he encourages everyone to participate – code of conduct and bill of rights is a starting point, not all inclusive, might not agree with it all. We need rules or we have bedlam or anarchy. We need to work together and if we don’t like something we need to make it work for all of us. Important for neighborhood and citizens. When one person’s right sare violation they don’t want to live here. Wants everyone to stay and be happy. This isn’t about an age group or ethnicity, renter or homeowner, we’re all in this together. [At some point, after he said these things for the third or fourth time, I began to think that they "doth protest too much".]
Rich lives behind channel 3 for 5 or 6 years. He says his fortune cookie today said – if you want to have a good friend than be a good friend. He wants people to consider if they are being a good friend, that can make a big difference in how people teatr you. Being nice can go a long way. He says he likes being conversational not confrontational. It. goes a long way. He talks about the value of two neighbors talking over a fence. Wants to see groups working together, respecting different opinions. He suggestions that people should be connected to someone who you know is involved, you don’t have to do all the work, let them bring your opinion to the meeting. He wants them to respect diversity, he says it sounds simple but hard to do. He says someone driving down the road looking crazy might just be enjoying their favorite song.
Betsy from Greentree has been the Preident of the Toki PTO for 3 years. They have had forums and conversations with teachers and school staff and parents dealing with appropriate behavior in the school – didn’t take it as far as the neighborhood. What the district told us – the message was – appropriate behavior is in school code of conduct, but the real issue is whether what is in the code of conduct is being carried through the leaders in the schools. Would like school district to apply the code of conduct. Has examples and data about it not being done. She talks about being pushed up against lockers in the school and nothing done. Staff have been injured and nothing seems to be done and parents whose students who have been injured or crimes against students can’t find out if perpetrator has been disciplined. She says that the "25 bad landlords" or other things might sound good, but highly doubts that it can be done. Applauds the efforts, supports it and would have been involved at meeting one. Schools being involved need to look at leasedership and that they buy into it. She says they need to make sure the teachers are really trained in the Positive Behavior Initiative. [Someone sitting by me muttered, "where would the get the money to do that." Good point!]
Dave Keller – grew up in Orchard Ridge – he’s a landlord and agrees there are problem landlords and there are problem tenants and both have the same problem, lousy behavior. Brought his son, thought mayor would be here – this is part of what we do at my house, we involved the kids and show them what is right and wrong and doesn’t see that going on, no parental involvement with children. Would be wonderful if neighbors knew each other – doesn’t know neighbors today, did 10 years ago, hasn’t taken the outreach step – would solve a lot of problems, need to know who lives next door and across the street. – his house and neighborhoods house broken into in broad daylight and we didn’t know who should be coming and going.
Pat – Golden Oak lane 32 years. Likes the want a friend be a friend – she thinks of this in terms of bridges and walls, we have developed a thinly veiled us and them mentality and the "them" are having a big event at Elver park on Saturday, "us" should also show up. She says we need to be bridges. We can have a code of conduct but until we build bridges, they won’t mean much. Things that are created unilaterally won’t be accepted, let’s all go to Elver Park. Let’s talk to each other and be the community we want to be and then talk about the rules on how we want to live together. Once again, the room burst into applause.
Charles from Midvale Heights – Asks panel and people who did the bill of rights? Asks why it is the citizens not the city or police that set the rules. Who will define the neighborhood and what is the mechanism to set the rules?
Glomp says that he wants them to work with use and join the committee and we will work on those that you like or dislike – that is why we are here tonight. [Ok, what committee, when and where does it meet, who is on it?]
Jim Monroe, minister and resident on Valley Ridge Drive in the Elver Park area. He says we need the freedom to speak up. Watching what they are trying to do, he says he is part of "us and them" process, he says there should be no " us and them" just people. He's trying to help the kids. Inside our community is auction that we need, that is you. You need to let them [kids] know that you care – otherwise they won’t listen or hear – not just black kid, kids, not Hispanic kids, kids. Too many issues to try to address but we need to open our minds and want to stop the problem then we as adults and parents need to make a concerted effort to not let the kids kill or steal or rob, we need to let them know we care, not that we are scared. If you send message that you are afraid they don’t know what to do – more applause
Florenzo from Allied Drive. We need to talk about public safety but also good and moral public policy. Looked over the bill of rights and some of the problems we have are not the same, we don’t have houses, working with the southwest neighborhoods is a good thing, but we need to have a lot more people on the end that need to follow the rules need to help create the rules. This singles out a lot of people. People on probation and parole have been judged already – shouldn’t have to be judged twice. When people on probation and parole get out of jail and some are found innocent, in the pool of public opinion get judged twice. Working in community sine 1997, he worked with the neighborhood center before it was the boys and girls club. Will be working on the YWCA project. We need programs, not buildings, you don’t change people by giving them toys, need to change their thought process, need to give them something new to think about to create a new person. Willing to extend a hand and work with whoever, but want people in community to be included in the process of the rules they need to follow – more applause
REQUESTS FOR SUPPORT OF OVERALL PLANS AND STRATEGIES
Asked for comments from groups – it was awkward as no one wanted to speak up.
Someone asks about the mayor. No one from the Mayor's office attended.
A woman says that we need to change the mindset of the school board, can’t let the kids run the school – need to not send kids all over to Verona or to catholic school. If she did it over she would send kids to catholic school, but can’t afford Edgewood. [I don't think that was what this section was about.]
Robert Howard – 28 years in the neighborhood, children went to Orchard Ridge nursery school. He says he sees some school people here and feels bad that you folks may not know that they are here and part of this thing. He's a parent and works as a school social worker, commends the effort, good starting point and they certainly need some improvement and input from a range of people and the target folks, whomever they are, the them out there. I feel like a them, I certainly look like (he's black) the stereotype and feels like he is. He says lots of people say they're just kids and a lot of the behavior many not look so objectionable if they were kids that look like you. I wantched the movie a Time to Kill and heard the summation and those of you who have seen it know what he said.. Think of that and these are all kids and all want love and attention and support. When we have the diversity that we have and the changes in the last 30 years, and there is more understanding of that change and we don’t need to accept all of it but people need to understand the community they are building. He hopes to see people at Elver. If you want to make a difference in the lives of the kids you can – he has a long list of kids that could use the help and you don’t need to be afraid. Good neighborhood and it can be better – invite a kid or two to be on the body. Often comes and see few people of color and people come as they are able to come many feel it is difficult to come, but invites you to read the Madison Times, read the paper, advertise in the paper, if you want to make a difference. Come on out and get to know them, invite people of color to come. – applause.
Manny (Emanuel) Scarborough with the Elver Park Group. He asks how did we get here? Why are we here? What was the situation that caused us to be here? How long will you be here? Only meeting you will be at? What are the goals? Strategies to get us where we want to go? Those are the hard questions. Are we going to change, what do I have to do, what do I tell myself, how do we come together as a community to look at how we want to live and how what we want to do. This is not coming to one meeting, its climbing a mountain, put one foot in front of the other. If you want to be engaged, get together in small and large groups and make it a concentrated effort. He reminds people the world is changing . . . and kids don’t understand old people – applause
West District Police Captain Lengfeld – west district is busiest district, encouraging that this district is that there is so much involvement from the community and what the speakers have said is what the whole city should do. Need to get everyone to do. Landlord pacts, community groups working to solve the problems and it’s the only way to do it. Law enforcement is a short term solution and you all are working on long term solutions, thinks issues and concerns will be addresses. Need to continue to work together and only good things will come.
Sheriff Mahoney – grew up in the neighborhood. Married high school sweetheart who grew up in Meadowood, lives by west towne. Sheriff and police work closely, trying to collaborate in south west Madison. Law enforcement will do their part. But can’t solve it all, requires entire community , requires businesses, faith based communities and schools. Points out county board supervisors in the room (Ferrell, Hesselbein and others). Also alders (Solomon, Clear, Sanborn, King . . . no Thuy?) He says they will continue to work collaboratively. Points out Keller said parent involvement is required, can’t say that enough Anybody who is old enough to attend Memorial when Boomer was there, were made to run the hill. Takes involvement and mentors, many know kids in the school and we can be a mentor to the kids next door. Not a mother in this community that doesn’t care about their children. Robert made thoughtful comments. He’ll do his part, but want to work with all of you – some clapping.
School Board President Arlene Silveira – Public schools and education are different than other groups – we do not have the ability to say no to a child that walks though the doors – legally and morally obligated to help them, in Madison we also do it because we want to – they believe in all children, embrace the diversity – truly a positive when they are in a diverse class room – diversity defined in many ways. Embrace every child , even those at the Meadowood Community Center. There have been problems and issues and a strong relationship between positive school and community. These meetings are important. Introduces people in the room and says that that they are committed to working with neighborhoods - School Board Members Beth Moss, Marj Passman, Ed Hhughes & Maya Cole, 3 principals from Falk, Toki and Chavez, school adminstrators including Luis Yudice who is in charge of safety in the schools. Says Nerad sends his regrets, long standing commitment to be with another neighborhood tonight. Says a partnership is critical to making it work. Meeting with neighborhood associations, partnered with city on the Meadowood Community Center. Working on communications with neighborhood . Committed to continuing the dialog and look at other solutions, but need to involve the kids. Partnership is two ways and they need help as well. What do kids want, volunteer at the neighborhood center . . . .
[At this point I was interrupted by Blaska, who came to ask me if I wanted a quote for my blog. Um . . . . No.]
County Board Supervisor Ronn Ferrell wanted to thank the women doing the childcare for the event. He says he is listening, it’s a start, let’s keep it going, get involved we need a better city and this is how we start.
No alders were invited to come forward, unlike the police, sherriff, school board and county board folks.
With that, they wrapped it up and called it a night. Encouraged people to get and stay involved, but never really said how.
Luciano from WYOU taped the whole thing, might want to watch his show to see if for yourself.
Read more!
Subscribe to:
Posts (Atom)